Victims of a Campaign- The Other Footy Teams Thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by GunneRy, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The game shows what happens to a pure countering side when you need a goal.

    First they had no out balls with Sterling taken off, Kane struggling and no proper wingers to hit

    Second they have no one in midfield who can structure play and build attacks

    I know its ball achingly cool to be never have any possession these days but when you chase a game, you have to be able to build attacks - especially if the other team simply reverts to countering.

    Brazil are the only team who showed they could play genuine attacking football to a high level of quality (vs Belgium) but chasing games is hard (see Germany)
     
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  2. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Jack for Lindy probably would have been better. I thought Henderson was very poor—panicked on the ball. He and Lindy were weak choices for me. Back 3 just didn’t seem necessary. Could have used extra man in midfield or proper wide forward. Although stones did well most of the time, I might have opted for Cahill just for the experience when pressure is on.

    I thought Kane was a shadow of what he does for Tottenham. Give his penalties to trippier and I think he’d be getting some serious criticism.
     
  3. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Houston Dynamo, Penang FC, Al Duhail
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tough luck England was a great game to attend for a neutral. Look who I bumped into outside the stadium...

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    this myth has to die.
     
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  5. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Me and man-like @Super Llama and @thebigman had a convo about this.

    Deschamps is a limited manager, but France doesn't have a passing central midfielder and never had one. They don't produce them in France, and they do not create real technicians on the ball

    Since that is the case, it is hard for them to play any other way, especially since Zidane retired.

    They need wing depth. After Sterling and Sane, they have nothing.
     
  6. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    :(

    Tolisso is pretty good. A midfield with Pogba and Tolisso should be able to find space for the likes of Mbappe and Griezmann.

    Most teams have only one elite winger, if that. City now have three.
     
  7. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zidane certainly had the ability to play as a passing central midfielder, as did Platini, but yeah, both of them usually played more forward. Maybe Giresse is the last real one I can think of?
     
  8. lynesjc

    lynesjc Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jun 21, 2001
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What do you guys have against Bernardo Silva...? ;)
     
  9. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    City have silva as a wide replacement but I spose your right

    I guess I mean how will they all play at once? Lol

    France have no creator but a very strong and stable midfield with some passing ability but they are built to press the ball in that area and attack quickly

    Tolisso is a decent passer and pogba but they are a team that goes very wide early and use their fbs

    Btw Zidane was more of a ten slightly withdrawn than a cm, ever since 98 France generally played with a screen, a strong cm and Zidane with quick wide players

    I think they have the scope to press Croatia into mistakes especially with Matuidi on the left offering that extra defensive capability

    @mebeSajid if I are on Facebook pm me as that is where prince and llama and me chat
     
  10. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Zidane was a #10, not a CM. Platini was similar. (and a lot of French attacking mids are more like Platini than Zidane)

    What I am saying is they need a Modric or a better version of Cabaye.
     
  11. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What is Tolisso then?
     
  12. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    A very average cm
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Guys like Petit and Vieira were more than capable of structuring the midfield play
     
  14. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you dont think apparel and ads will skyrocket?
     
  15. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Clubs barely get anything from shirt sales and they're already locked into their sponsorship agreements so, no, probably not.
     
  16. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Zidane is the exception, yeah. When they had Zidane everything came together for France.

    Besides him, they haven't produced the technicians that Spain, Italy, or even Germany have put in their midfield, and they don't have pure passers in their squads.

    My theory is that French youth development may be a little fcuked up in that they are selecting kids for athletic profiles early, on the basis that they are obviously more successful compared to their age cohort, and attract significant international financial attention early on. French teams may not actually be that good at developing young players? I don't know for sure, but the theory follows that this weakness is papered over by the quantity of French players who play overseas from a young age and are finished there, as far as technique and tactics go.

    Point being, they have a different model of development compared to the Dutch, Spanish, German or Italian models. Overall, the product is successful, but maybe it's suboptimal. Just spitballing tho
     
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  17. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought that's what I said. Thus, the closing comment that Giresse was the last player of the ilk to which you were referring that I could recall.
     
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  18. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    We don’t know what the particulars are for CR7 image rights and such, but let’s not forget he’s still a good player and likely will contribute especially in Italy for 2-3 years.

    Also, I think serie A is in the middle of their TV negotiations and Ronaldo’s presence will drive that up I’m sure. A large chunk will go to the historic and current top clubs which juve will benefit the most.

    Shirt sales are negotiable afaik, so they could use this to get a better deal I’m sure. Fiat is their sponsor and effectively owns the club so they can use CR7 presence to jack the sponsorship prices up and help them meet FFP.

    Whether it ends up being worth the 60m or whatever a year it will end up costing it’s hard to say.

    But remember the Beckham deal to RM? Many said it was too much, he was too old, and they paid him too much wages. Because of the marketing RM made a huge profit off of Beckham. This could end up similar.
     
  19. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Not Modric
    You did, my apologies.
     
  20. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps not as articulately as I could of done. No worries.
     
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  21. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn’t there an article in 2010... from Portuguese newspaper where Ronaldo shirt sales topped 100 mil euro...
    I am assuming that not all of them were from Madrid official store
     
  22. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Maybe gross 100m, but doubtful. There have been a few analyses on this. I think Swiss ramble did one and concluded that clubs earn about 12€ per kit net. That was a few years ago so let’s say 20€. The biggest clubs only sell maybe 2m kits. Juve will maybe reach this number his first year so 40m€ max. Way less than what they will pay Ronaldo next year.
     
  23. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...t-shirt-sales-world-record-198m-a7874731.html

    To make it brief, Adidas pays Madrid a license fee (the lot deal) for the right to sell their merchandise. All the shirt revenue goes to Adidas.

    Clubs do not make the money back in shirt sales.
     
  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #19099 The Jitty Slitter, Jul 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
    The main value of a cornerstone star like Ronaldo is to leverage him on commercial tie-ins

    As others have commented, the major deals are all multi-year deals e.g. sponsorship. So Ronaldo can be priced into such deals as/when they are renewed. Usually such deals include activities with the players.

    I don't know when these sponsorships renew - however I suspect the main idea is new global partnerships

    Juve recently rebranded - into a more modern lifestyle brand

    This is part of that effort to build the global following, and my guess is there will be major new commercial projects

    As we've also seen in the UK, the sponsorship growth is largely a factor of the growth in global viewing - so Juve want to build that - increasing the value of their brand. But Serie A is not a huge seller like the EPL.

    In reverse, this is also why Utd have sought to replenish their stocks of A list stars - because it is necessary to justify the commercial $$ flowing in

    This also remains Arsenal's key problem. Outside of Ozil, the team doesn't have any genuine A list star.
     
  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Exacto - so Juve can really only make more money here when the likes of Adidas and Jeep renew.

    But my guess is they are looking at new special activities with brand Ronaldo, outside of those deals.

    Also they want to fatten the Juve global brand - which is the first step to increasing the tickets on these cornerstone commercials
     

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