Absolutely Not. Damaged goods too old and he is a bench player to top it off. We need a clean break from these failures like Marchisio who managed to make it out of that Uruguay game unscathed even though he was the real culprit.
Messi comes from provincial Argentina, which isn't exactly known for being economically prosperous. As for Ronaldo, he hails from the island of Madeira. His family wasn't well-off by any means. Young Ronaldo was a dreamer who reportedly told his dad that one day they'd live in a big house and have lots of money. Dad did not think that would be possible. In terms of passion, drive, and desire, Ronaldo seems more South American than European. He has this primal rage to succeed that often comes from having had to face adversity early on.
Who is favoured to take the coaching reigns? I was on vacation last week so thankfully I was able to drink heavily and pound broads which eased the pain of this failure. However, the bitter reality of missing the WC is setting in. I read somewhere that ancelotti and maldini may reunite with the azzurri. Is there any truth to this? I bet baggio is having the last laugh here considering his plans for reform were never heard.
Good points made but in regards to the Ronaldo/Messi phenomenon, that's in some ways a product of the media who have latched on to a select few and hone their focus in on that. Granted, those two are on another level from a talent standpoint, but they are treated like Gods on a global marketing scale, which only feeds into the notion that they are head and shoulders above the rest. It was, on a much smaller scale, a similar phenomenon with Balotelli. Media latched onto him, for better but mostly worse, and every other Italian was disregarded (except Pirlo, who was a generational talent with unique qualities both on and off the pitch). Meanwhile, to touch upon the defense argument, it is very much a different era. The playmaking/offense-generating defender is in vogue currently and as a fan of Italian football for the last 30 yrs, it is frustrating to watch. There should be no reason why someone like Bonucci is generating our offense from the backline.
Their families weren't poor either. Neither grew up in a favela or a Paris ghetto for example. Rosario Argentina is comparable to many places in Italy. Madeira probably as well. Doesn't matter what he seems like. He's European. And so is Wenger's own striker, Giroud.
I could not be farther against this point, what is the genuine explanation for players somehow being "worse" defenders? This notion that the players of yesteryear were taught some jedi-magic that only they could be legendary defenders is strange to me, the margin of error for young talents is MUCH smaller than before, i suppose economic situations for their upbringing plays some sort of part but it's impossible to equate that just because they're poor they're better, considering there's so many different types of criteria for deciding a player's greatness. Kaka was the last non-M/R Balon D'or winner and he came up in a comfortable middle class home. Players have always been as hungry as before, they just get paid much more now, as they should. The point about Messi-Ronaldo being ahead of the pack with the rest being average is interesting, i see it just as them being that much better than everyone else, we're witnessing the best player rivalry in football's history, with them trading Balon D'Ors for a decade where before you had a new player every year, this is more a case of them just being that good as opposed to this thought that this generation of players are somehow not talented.
As I recall, Messi moved to Barcelona aged 13 with his family because the Catalan club agreed to pay for him to overcome his human growth deficiency syndrome. If his family were so well off, they would have paid for it themselves. It was a gamble that paid off many times over for all parties involved. Ronaldo is a rare breed. For many years, Portugal had a sluggish economy so much so that it was viewed as being something of a third world country. I also recall in the build-up to Euro 2004 that many within Portuguese society felt that the millions of euros being lavished on new or refurbished stadia could have been better spent on the nation's infrastructure, economy, as well as social welfare. Until last year's unexpected Euro 2016 triumph, the Portuguese had a tendency to reason that they often failed to win silverware in major tournaments because they would lose out to bigger, richer countries. That bred an inferiority complex. I stand by my assertion that the greatest footballers in history came from humble origins. That's not to say that correlation implies causation. Let's face it, soft, entitled rich kids are just not going to be as driven to transcend their circumstances as much as those who didn't have very much growing up. To sum up, I think there are exceptions to these situations. It is possible for a rich kid to rise to the top just as much as a poor kid can use excuses to not rise above his circumstances. For the most part, I think that the notion that European players tend to be average whereas South Americans are more likely to be "transcendent" is pretty accurate.
Messi's father used to pay for his treatment until Barcelona stepped in. Who in this world would refuse free treatment? And no one ever said they were so well off. So Ronaldo is the product of a sluggish economy. Gotcha. No argument there. But humble origins does not mean poor, nor is it exclusive to S.A.
Surprised no one wrote it here. Ronaldos dad was janitor, i believe at local high school, but i know he was definitely a janitor and I know he was a alcholic who would drink till he passed out. Ronaldo grew up under this kind of a "father" until soccer got him away from it. I believe several times they had to go pick him up after passed out someplace. I dislike Ronaldo, but I give him a lot of credit for beating the bottle and not turning into his dad. Messi was a runt litterally, if Barca did not buy him and give him the growth injections, he probaly would have quit playing soccer in his teens as his body was not growing well enough to even be considered short or strong for his age at the time. Both overcame adversity, Messi (who i like more) had arguably one of the best health systems in the world help him do it, but he know no dougbt earned his soccer skills from himself. Ronaldo overcame a type of childhood that often leaves scars that get reopened in childhood.
An interesting thing to think about in Italys former clinical finisher guys on the field via the usual names. Post War Italy was a really ugly place. The Boomers grew up watching their woman being conquered by Allied troops after Germany said we will annex you if you dont join us. They basically had a choice on whose bitch they were going to be. Poverty was very common and it took a while to restructure after that. I believe it was the 70s and 80s that saw crime really start to be very common and then the 80s had the terrorism with the Red Brigades. I would say that it seemed like the decadence of the new millenium really watered down the hardness of men.... just me looking from the outside with no real anecdotal evidence. Unemployment in Italy has been a real problem no doubt since millenium, but that does not really affect footballers.
Well I wonder that as well. I would think maybe either Chile or New Zealand, but the link said we were in contention. Might be a playoff in march if it actually happens.
If he's truly damaged good and cannot recover, then move on. Watching Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta, even Ferrara of the 90's with more pervasive defensive systems would have convinced you. There's not one defender that can even come close to Ferrara in today's league. You didn't, so I can understand how you don't think it's better. Watch Maldini and Baresi on Romario in 94. They did that all the time, week in and out. Routine. They did it in that years European Champions (CL final to him and Stoichkov too). Maldini dominated a POY in Ronaldo in the CL in 07 when he was 100 years old. There's no comparison to today's defenders, if only on FIFA play station or something like that. The notion that players today have this jedi-magic, in your mind, is equally as stupid. They didn't have jedi magic, or any insane dismissal you kids can come up with. They were just better ALL around. That's why Maradona was better than Romario. He played in a tighter defensive league against the very best in the world at that time. His stride and dribbling in such spaces out did Romario 10 fold. It's not even close. How so? I see. I should have been more specific. Players can motivate themselves in any which way they want... I was talking about this only: It's really not as talented. The amount he needed to grow to 5'6 from the expected 5'0 would have been excessive. Small dose amounts, legally, run $500-1K/month. He'd have needed $10k+ a month and I believe that the bill was $15k + He's a lab rat Fantastically skilled, but wouldn't have been the player he was today without the extra growth hormone. It's being used in rehabilitation these days too, more than anyone can imagine.
this idea that players in this generation or whatever are not as talented does not make sense to me in the slightest, players are taught from an early age the intricacies of what make some of the best teams in the world work, are much better athletes than before, more intelligent than before and have better attention to detail in terms of coaches looking over what they do every day, so how on earth could the explanation be that “they’re not as good” when strikers are scoring more than before, midfielders are more dominant than before. Defenders did not get worse, attackers just got better.
It's easy kid, you didn't watch then. You'd have absolutely no doubt if you did. Listen and learn, and stop arguing for no reason. All just assumptions, and generally b.s. They have better drugs, maybe. Athletic evolution is miniscule in the last 20 years. Once in a while, in every sport, comes a genetic freak. The gains that can be made on good to great players are not as big now, over what was then. Maradona was a beast in the 80's...coke right? Not only, or even nearly. The reason why defenders are not being produced like they were is because there is less focus on that. There was more before, and hence your argument of better training and attention to detail would apply. There really was more focus on this aspect then. Which is why strikers who could overcome the very best, were the very best. You want to argue that defenders are better today? In an era that produced Baresi, Maldini, Nesta, Costacurta, Cafu, Aldair, Cannavaro, Gentile, Ferrara...and I can go on and on. Where are those guys today? In an era where defensive systems were preferred over attacking ones, in league. Tell me how it wasn't harder? Lastly, if you have 10-20 hours and could watch even 5-6 games of the top teams back then, you'd stop arguing this moot point. You're wrong. Because defenders and defensive systems are not more dominant than before. I've been trying to tell you this for a few days now. The second point you made contradicts the first. Double face-palm, triple even (let me borrow one of your hands to slap myself with).
@thinredline10 The generations that gave us Inzaghi, Totti, Del Piero, Baggio, Vieri, Cannavarro, Nesta, Baresi, Maldini etc. have nothing to do with the life in post war Italy. In fact, they grew up in a time when Italy was the land of "la dolce vita". Times are harder now for Italians than they were in that era that produced the last great Azzurri players.
There really is no need to rush and pay someone else that the federation can't afford. Other than a friendly or two, Italy isn't playing until next October I don't believe.