Arsenal vs Liverpool - Sunday August 27th, 2017

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by MilesW, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I was a big Xhaka defender for most of last year against a wide variety of criticism. I was wrong. I don't think he's good enough. At best, he's another Goldilocks player in our squad--one that needs just the right tactical setup and just the right players around him to be playing optimally. Our first team squad has too many Goldilocks players to work properly though.
     
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  2. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Stop the Internet guys. We've found a winner.

     
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  3. cantona94

    cantona94 Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. I find it a bit ironic speaking of "whinging" given that Arsene whinges at times more than anyone else.
     
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  4. Aaron d

    Aaron d Member+

    May 15, 2005
    Wooster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He won't. his view of what works is not based on winning championships. It never has. It's only been ROI.

    As long as the club makes money and provides a good return he won't care about anything else. He has no drive to win. It's simply been a side effect of owning Arsenal. I guarantee that had we kept increasing revenue by placing 15th every year he'd be fine. He only invests money because he knows he has to to keep up his return.
     
  5. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Hoboken NJ
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure. But which goal would you say he is responsible for in any real way?

    I guess we could blame him for a giveaway 40 yards from goal on the touchline but he wasn't the one who left Fermino wide open in the net. And honestly I would blame the wing for lazily waiting for the ball.

    Rob Holding was smoked on the 2nd goal. Granted Liverpool took two passes and advanced the ball 60 yards which is pretty embarrassing. But, IMO, that suggests a tactical breakdown.

    The Saleh goal is completely on Bellerin.

    The final goal I don't really recall but the team had completely given up by that time.

    I don't believe that this team has a talent deficiency. We didn't get killed today because Liverpool is so much more talented than us. We got killed because they executed better than we did and put far better effort into it. I don't know how to fix that short of getting rid of Wenger.
     
  6. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Hoboken NJ
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm fine with criticisms of the club.

    I see little value in the "Why say anything positive? Everything is over and there is no reason to be optimistic about anything"

    That's just an over the top reaction for me.
     
  7. total_football

    total_football Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Xhaka is slow, ponderous and error prone. Coq rhymes with joke, El Nenny plays football like a donkey . Our DMF s are a joke
     
  8. banco

    banco Member

    Mar 27, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The thing is, most players are Goldilocks players; All players have flaws, it's up to our manager to implement tactics that minimize those flaws, or to buy players that cover those flaws. How many players can you think of honestly that are close to flawless? I would love to have a Neymar on the team, but we aren't spending 200 million plus on a player, so anyone we buy will have flaws too.
     
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  9. Fifty

    Fifty Member

    Mar 11, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I'm the problem, I'm the problem. Wenger 8/27/17.

     
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  10. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This. All players have strengths and weaknesses. It's not as if Liverpool's squad is full of versatile maestros. But a team is supposed to be more than the sum of its parts.

    More and more, Arsenal's squad feels like the difference of its parts.
     
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  11. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think of what I was saying less as a player having flaws so much as a player having a very narrow skillset, or having a skillset which is overly dependent on the play of others. You're right though, better players are basically just non-Goldilocks. It's also true that the task of fitting players and their skillsets into a cohesive unit rests with the manager. About that...
     
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  12. Dooglas

    Dooglas Member

    Jul 30, 2005
    Las Vegas, NV
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    When you buy new players, change the formation but the results are the same, look to your constants.
     
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  13. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Aaron d

    Aaron d Member+

    May 15, 2005
    Wooster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not 100% his fault, but the second goal was exactly the same as one earlier this season: Ramsey too high up the pitch out of position, Xhaka doesn't recognize it and takes a risk that springs a counter.

    Both times Xhaka took an ill timed gamble, both times because Ramsey was too high upfield, and both times resulted in goals. Both times our defenders did poor in 1v1 situations. It's possible for multiple people to be at fault on a goal. In that goal Xhaka had a major breakdown that helped put the other team in a position to score.

    Those are all individual mistakes though. That many individual mistakes show there is a larger problem, and we all know what that is. Changing who plays or what formation isn't going to fix that now. We would have found a different way to concede. Liverpool was better in every aspect.
     
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  15. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Fvck it.

    I need some Bergkamp. (I don't drink, so this will have to do.)



    Or, I just found this, and it's even better.

     
  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Exactly - lots of this stuff is just basics that a different manager would fix.
     
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  17. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think Guardiola's solution to this is fascinating. If you're going to have the fullbacks narrow in defense, have them be narrow in attack, and act as outlets in the midfield, and push the forwards wider and have them attack the fullbacks more. That way, the fullbacks aren't quite as high up the pitch and also make up the numbers in midfield, and provide more protection against a counterattack.
     
  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    One of the key things for the gegen pressing teams is that you need to have players in the correct position to press at the time the transition occurs.

    So for Guardiola and other managers its important to establish the right positional set up on field before a risky pass is made.

    And also as you say - there is a lot of focus over controlling the centre of midfield

    Having Ramesy miles up the pitch is completely naive
     
  19. Essex

    Essex Member

    Jul 5, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Don't panic.The Premier League is not a sprint, it's a marathon. Let us not be McGregor, let us be Mayweather.
     
  20. banco

    banco Member

    Mar 27, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Doesn't matter what kind of race it is if you are running with a bad knee.
     
  21. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    still rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic around here I see.
     
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  22. AEAAFC96

    AEAAFC96 Member+

    Mar 27, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't be surprised if Alexis and/or Mesut hand in transfer requests in before the window closes. Why would they want to be associated with this mess?
     
  23. GunneRy

    GunneRy Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Chicago
    I have lowered my expectations to, say, an Everton fan.

    If we get 6th, make a good run in the Europa league and get another incredibly favorable set of FA Cup draws, maybe win the FA Cup.

    There's nothing better than that to be expected from this group, and this manager.
     
  24. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    None of these players are wanted by bigger clubs thats just agents jabber
     
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  25. MilesW

    MilesW Member+

    Aug 26, 2010
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd like to say this is this seasons "8-2" but I could see this team actually losing 8-2. Nothing about any part of this team makes sense. They're a high paid rec team.
     

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