Also posted on the Bruce Arena thread . . Comparing Jurgen Klinsmann and Bruce Arena by the numbers . Bruce Arena’s team has allowed a very stingy 0.6 goals per game. That’s 50% less than Klinsmann’s 1.2 goals against during the cycle. Klinsmann’s basket is better at 0.9 but Arena’s still reduced opponent scoring by 38%. The consensus reason would be that Arena’s defense is more conservative and better organized, especially when opponents reach the attacking third. In fact, the numbers suggest that is the case. Arena’s defense allows far fewer shots on goal by staying more centrally compact, forcing the opponent out wide and more effectively clearing the ball from danger. the big change from Klinsmann to Arena is opponents getting shots off much less consistently and getting less of them to the goalkeeper, resulting in much better defense. Arena has done this by dictating more positional discipline and less overall up field aggression, which is exactly what needs to be done to fix a team quickly. That Arena has brought structure to the United States defense without sacrificing anything offensively is the real coup. Klinsmann promised more proactivity but in the end that aggression probably cost him on the defensive end without gaining enough on offense. Arena has found the right balance and the USMNT is back on track as a result.
Well he wasn't a nobody, and I say that from "the German point of view" (lived there from 1998 until 2002 and have been in Austria ever since. Lehman was a world-class GK, but Kahn is a legend and was indisputably the top German GK at the time. I don't look at this as one decision being worse than the other, I see it as the Donovan decision being yet another example of Klinsmann's obsession with appearing unorthodox by making decisions that no one can understand (both at the time and in retrospect). Both horrible decisions that still kind of worked out okay for Klinsmann because the end result was acceptable.
Not sure if you are an NFL fan, but the Seahawks throwing a pass from the one yard line at the end of the SuperBowl and having it intercepted to lose the game is by far the worst coaching decision I have seen in any sport in my long lifetime. Leaving Donovan out sucked. It really was wrong and it was done for vindictive reasons, not real squad-building reasons. But losing the Super Bowl on a moronic pass play call when you have the best, fiercest running back in the league standing there is way, way more stupid.
Did Klinsman ever congratulate the USA for winning the Gold Cup this year? Would be classy if he had. Arena went out of his way to credit Jk for identifying Morris.
He did . . Awesome Gold Cup win 2017 by team USA !!! Congratulations !!!https://t.co/onezxn9ceS— J_Klinsmann (@J_Klinsmann) July 28, 2017
I saw a guy on facebook the other day (on the US Soccer page) credit Klinsmann for Pulisic, which was a real head-scratcher. Morris, Brooks, Johnson, Zelalem... sure, but Pulisic? I couldn't believe it.
I'm a huge NFL fan and that was mostly a phenomenal play by Malcolm Butler. Russ threw a bullet and a 9/10 the WR makes the catch or at least causes an interception. That wasn't an aggressively stupid play call. NE was in goal line defense and the slant there is a pretty safe throw. The opponent gets a say too. Judging the logic of the play it was actually a good call, just with a bad outcome. What Klinsmann did was the equivalent of not activating Doug Baldwin for the SuperBowl. There was not one logical reason to not bring Donovan to Brazil. JK brought at least 4 guys who shouldn't have been on the team over LD. It was a bad call with bad results perfumed by making it out of the group.
My assessment of that World Cup has always been "job done" in terms of expectations (as is my assessment of this Gold Cup). However, something that seems to get overlooked about that particular WC performance is that Portugal were nowhere near as good as billed. The narrative heading in, was that the US were in a group of death, but that was based on Portugal being thought of as a contender and a favourite to progress. They were in fact awful, so that left the US with a tight victory but underwhelming performance against Ghana, an expected defeat against Germany, followed by a desperate performance against Belgium. They even dropped two points against Portugal in their best performance of the tournament. So satisfactory results (which ultimately is what counts) but I don't think the 2014 WC was anything to write home about in terms of how the US played.
I would have dropped any of the following players in favor of Donovan. Green, Davis, Bedoya, Zusi, Wondolowski, Johannsen, Diskerud. Now, I'm not saying that no one that I listed deserved to go, just that Donovan would have done their job and more.
I will straight up say that Chandler, Green, and Johannsson all did not deserve to go to the 2014 FIFA World Cup Finals in USA shirts, irrespective of the decision to take Donovan. Playing for the national team is a reward that is earned through exceptional achievements in club soccer; playing in a World Cup Finals is the rarest and highest honor a NT player can earn for themselves. Tim Chandler rarely played well for us, refused call-ups twice under Klinsmann, then decides to cap-tie himself in early 2013 but doesn't put on a US jersey again until he's called into the 2014 WC camp. Chandler didn't play in a single match at the WC Finals. Julian Green, at the time of his inclusion in the WC roster, had never played a pro match or a competitive game for the USA. Not only had he not proven he was one of the best Americans available for this tournament, he clearly wasn't. Aron Johannsson had not been playing for AZ due to injury before he even got called in and had ankle surgery immediately after the WC. If not for Jozy's injury, he probably doesn't play a single match. At least the others were fit and had actually done something in qualifying. I think Eddie Johnson kinda got shafted, too. He wasn't in form, but was at least fit. But Jurgen had to shaft some guys to make room for the dudes he promised WC spots to, regardless of their form or commitment.
A "nobody" who took Arsenal to the Champions League Final and posted a record 10-game, 853 minute shut-out streak in Champions League play in the months before the 2006 World Cup. Leading up to the 2006 World Cup, Lehmann was an elite goalkeeper at the top of his game. I understand that Klinsi's decision picking Lehmann to start over the legend Kahn was dramatic and tabloid fodder, but it is a really poor analogy to the Donovan cut. Imagine in 2006 if Klinsi cut Kahn from the German squad entirely in favor of Jörg Butt of Leverkusen. THAT is a far better analogy to the Donovan cut. If Klinsi had decided Donovan no longer deserved to start and play 90 minutes every match, but kept him on the Cup team and used him as a substitute during the Cup, only then you would have a valid analogy with Lehmann/Kahn. But that's not what happened at all.
You dont have to explain to me who Lehmann was. The mood and situation ahead of 2006 was like I described it. From a German pov. Lehmann confirmed it in the documentary.
And my point was that the mood and situation in 2006 is a really poor analogy to the Donovan cut. I provided you with better analogies.
I've got a better one.JuerK cuts Kahn,and replaces him with a dual national who is a youth keeper playing in B3.
It's not comparable, but it is analogous. Both must have been for personal reasons because they defied other logic. Maybe Jurgen's ego couldn't accept Kahn admitting Germany were lucky to defeat the lowly Americans in 2002. lol We saw what Jurgen thought of Germany relative to the U.S., or the U.S. relative to any top 30 or so nation, when he was our manager. It is actually a German-centric p.o.v. that it's equivalent when you're talking the best American player of all-time regardless of position, when Kahn wouldn't make many top 10 German lists, Kahn was on the roster snugly behind the starter while Donovan was on the bench, and Lehmann was a legit #2 where the guys Donovan bumped for weren't. Of course it was easy to know that Donovan was better than the alternatives before the WC on account he was just 32, the best American player of all-time, provided needed speed up top (played zero attackers but Dempsey after Jozy went down), was healthy enough, reportedly the 2nd best player in practices, and his competition had borderline (at best) qualifications to even make the 23. It's nihilism to argue otherwise. That was the most obvious personal snub, backed up by Jurgen's son's reaction to the news and his handling of other vets well into their 30's who didn't (or even did in Howard's case) take a hiatus.
I have no problem with that. I was trying to be nice. To be completely honest. He would be the first person on the roster if I'm making it.
Well, since you put it out there, I'll agree with you on 2 out of three. I would say AJ deserved to go based on his achievements. But most likely shouldn't have because of physical problems. Green most definitely did not deserve to go. And his fluke of a goal doesn't change that. FWIT, that goal on his first touch is like Hoyt Wilhelm, major league pitcher. Like all pitchers, he couldn't hit. But what did he do in his first major league at bat? Hit a home run.
saxman said: ↑ I would have dropped any of the following players in favor of Donovan. Anyone not named Bradley, Howard, Dempsey, Jones I appreciate the sentiment. Since Donovan has never played as a defender nor as a keeper, I wasn't putting those players on the chopping block. I'd have a hard time cutting Jozy for Donovan in 2014. In retrospect it would have been fine since Jozy gave us what, about 20 minutes of playing time?
MIss Jurgen Klinsmann yet? Does England miss King John? Does Germany miss Ludwig the Mad? Does Albania miss Enver Hoxha? Does China miss the Dowager Empress? Does Mexico miss Maximilian Ferdinand?........