Post-match: United States v Jamaica Gold Cup Final 7/26

jfc give it a rest

 

The three rivals we faced after getting the reinforcements were El Salvador, Costa Rica & Jamaica.

El Salvador : That was their A-team except for the injured Irvin Herrera.

Costa Rica : Ok, that was mostly a B-team, missing Navas, Bryan, Matarrita, Gamboa, Borges, etc.

Jamaica : Close to an A-team, they were missing their aging star Wes Morgan, Mariappa, and maybe McAnuff.

So our A- team beat an A team, a B team, and another A- team in route to the win, for those who like the letters game.

 

B-Team. Far too many pieces missing to call it anything close to an A-team.

The main missing pieces were Giles Barnes, Simon Dawkins, Garath McCleary, Adrian Mariappa, Michael Hector, Deshorn Brown, Dever Orgill, Rodolph Austin, and Demar Phillips. Those are all starters or first-off-the-bench players in the best possible Jamaican team. In addition to this, key players who should/could have made this team on merit and would have enhanced it if they did but did not (due either to injury or other non-football related reasons) are Omar Holness, Andre Lewis, Paul Wilson, Devon Williams, Cardel Benbow, Junior Flemmings, and Kenardo Forbes. Wes Morgan is older but probably has a couple years left in him at this level, so you can add him to the list. McAnuff is largely aged out (he'll be a 36 year old winger in a few months), so I would not include him among the current A-team players.

Barnes, Dawkins, Phillips, McCleary, Lewis, Holness, Wilson, Forbes, Benbow, Flemmings, Orgill, Austin, and Williams (also maybe Hector, who is a capable defensive midfielder) are among those who could (should) have been called for assistance in the midfield, which was by far the weakest link in this team. The Jamaican team fielded in this tournament had no creative midfielder anywhere in the midfield and no professional true winger (the best true winger being Omar Gordon, formerly of Indy Eleven but currently playing semi-professionally in Jamaica). There is a reason why nearly every team that faced this side in this tournament pretty much owned the middle third - there was no creative midfielder to oppose them and thus no contest there. They could freely dictate the pace and create from the center, while we could not. Further, the lack of a true winger of professional quality meant that throughout the tournament, our best crossers of the football were wingbacks (Alvas Powell, Kemar Lawrence, and Oniel Fisher, who to his credit actually did a pretty decent job filling in at right midfield).

Because of that, this was well off of the strongest possible team Jamaica could field. Of all of the names mentioned above, the A-team would include (at a bare minimum) Hector, Barnes, Mariappa, Austin, and Dawkins, along with two or more of the creative midfield prospects mentioned above (Wilson, Holness, etc) plus at least 1 or two legitimate professional wingers (Orgill, Benbow, McCleary, Flemmings, etc). In short, a Jamaican A-team would have a deeper backline, even more depth and pace up front (ex: adding Deshorn Brown) and a much more professional, creative, and technical midfield than what you saw.

I don't know if that A-team would have won this tournament, but it probably would have come closer to doing so. It is heartening to know that a Jamaican B-team with all of its glaring weaknesses was able to push a decent USMNT (also clearly missing key pieces) and beat a Mexican B-team. There's a lot of reason for optimism going forward for 2022 and 2026.

 

No question that the role Acosta being asked to play requires big shoulders. The better the opposition, the greater the physical requirements needed to remain effective.

 

Nagbe at 5'9" doesn't look 165lbs.

 

Did you ever watched Makelele playing? He wasn't a great 6, never physical.

While being physical helps in the middle, is not required if you are a good tactical player and can read the game well. Acosta is not just missing the physical part, he choked a lot with the ball at his feet which is worse, after all the type that I read on this board, I expected more from him.

 

El Salvador were missing 2 pieces that would have def made them stronger; Arturo Alvarez and Pablo Punyed, both Salvy Americans.

 

The whole so and so had a A- or a B or a C+ team is just foolish. Every team was playing the same game under the same rules. Every team was using the players they were for a variety of reasons.
1. Injuries
2. Manager wanted to look at other players.
3. Players were in clubs and weren't included.

And our team was missing a number of starters. Arena put our team together with what he and his staff thought was the best overall approach given what they wanted to accomplish. And they accomplished what he wanted to do.

Successful tournament. Period.

 

If Arriola could deliver a cross half as good as this one...hopefully that improves.

 

I have a bone to pick calling a few of those guys A team (like Orgill, who has only played about 40 minutes with the NT, or Austin, who IMO is weaker than what you had for the GC), but I defer to you as their fan.

It's a shame Jamaica didn't make the Hex. You're better than Trinidad at this point, with a big pool of more or less equal talent. Playing two Copas America didn't hurt either: you tempered the steel of a bunch of players in those.

 

How is bobby wood doing now?

 

Costa Rica was as much an A team as us. Look at their caps. eight under 10 caps. three between 10 and 20, and the rest, starting with Wallace and ending with Ruiz, had between 24 and 103 caps.

The US had six players under 10 caps. Seven players between 10 and 20 (including Corona and Nagbe with 20 each), and the final thirteen players between 22 and 137. Most of whom were below 50, with Altidore, Howard, Dempsey, and Bradley clearly the old-hands, with over 100 caps each.

Contrast those teams with Mexico, clearly a B team, with the GK Corona the most-capped at 48, and 18 guys with 19 caps or less, 14 of whom had less than 10 appearances.

And Jamaica, definitely a B team, with nine players under 10 caps, six between 11 and 16, and then 8 more, from Andre Blake to Jermaine Taylor with between 30 and 98 caps.

Now, the reason I look at caps is, there's often some argument about who makes a "best XI". For example, I may not consider Gonzalez an "A team" player, which is reasonable, but someone else may disagree, and they'd have equally-good reasons to disagree with me. So you take out the subjective part, and just look at caps. If someone's getting a lot of caps, it's a safe bet that they're an important part of an A-team. If they aren't, then they probably are a B-teamer. Obvious exceptions are players that are very young, yet really talented, like Pulisic, who is a lock starter with 16 caps. Or, old players, like Beasley/Jones, who are on their way out with 125 and 69 caps respectively.

I think Jamaica's finally gotten the attention of CONCACAF, what with two wins against the US and Mexico in consecutive Gold Cups. Now what remains to be seen is consistency in WCQ. Failing to get into the Hex in 2010, last in the Hex in 2014, failing to get to the Hex for 2018. Spotty record at best. If they can perform like this over a grueling WCQ schedule, they should be able to perhaps pip Panama or Honduras for that 4th spot. The WC expansion will certainly help them.

 

I mentioned Orgill as a winger, which is where he'd be used in this team (probably on the left). He would definitely have been an upgrade on the players we gave the most time to on the left side. He's a much more technical player than they are.

Austin would have been a definite upgrade over Ladale Richie, who started as a defensive midfielder in the final against the USMNT. Richie isn't even a midfielder - he's a true centerback. Granted, we have had centerbacks perform capably in the midfield before (Michael Hector), but those rare exceptions were generally much more technically polished players. Richie shows no such polish, and has no offensive capacity as a midfielder (ex: ability to drive forward with the ball, eye for a intermediate-long passes, etc). He's just an extra centerback in front of two main centerbacks. Austin's technical, tactical, and offensive ability when operating in the midfield are leaps and bounds ahead of Richie's, and the midfield's possession and offensive capacity would have significantly improved with him there ahead of Richie.

Austin would be ahead of Lambert too at the moment if we're just looking at pure capability, but not by nearly as great a distance as he is ahead of Richie.

Jamaica got beaten by itself and by outside forces off the field. Jamaica is just what happens when you have a quality talent pool and an administration that has no idea how to really organize, develop, nurture, or properly manage it.

 

Is good to see the team win for sure.

- Acosta was the biggest loser in this tournament, we wanted to see more from him and he showed his lack of skills but he will be around, hoping he gets better.

- Roldan the biggest question, Bruce didn't give him enough time.

- As much as I criticize Bradley, he is a good leader and this team needs him.

-I like what I saw from Lichaj.

- I'm not sold on Villafana.

- Corona doesn't find his style on this team, Luis Silva will prob be the same.

- Hedges is a no for me.

- Dax, not buying it.

- Morris, a good concacaf player.

- Rowe, want to see more of him.

- Dwyer, a good option.

- Agudelo and Pontius just don't have any chemestry with this team.

- Omar is an ok back up option.

Can't think of anything else for now.

 

Dax is probably the biggest loser after the GC. Some were already penciling him in for Bradley, and in the Gold Cup he flopped. And he has no time to recover, he's 30 already. So, this was probably it for him.

 

The expansion was tailor made for a team like Jamaica.

Jamaica has never been a consistently excellent side. Granted, its a young nation in football (really only started taking international football seriously in the early 1990s, and had no professionals at all really until the late 90s), but in that short time it has been up and down.

Despite all its failings, Jamaica has managed to fairly consistently put itself in or near the top 6 in the region. Mexico, the USA, and Costa Rica are almost always ahead, and more often than not Jamaica finds itself just outdone by the better central americans (Panama and Honduras), but after that they do pretty well holding off the second tier central american sides (El Salvador, Guatemala, etc), Canada, and the rest of the Caribbeans.

The problem, of course, is that top or top 7 didn't get you a world cup. But in 2026 and beyond, it will.

The expansion is perfect for a side with Jamaica's history since it gives a team a chance even if they're just behind the central american elite. Assuming FIFA does not allow Canada to auto-qualify in 2026, CONCACAF would have 4 berths + 2 playoff spots remaining. With no USA or Mexico to duel with, Jamaica could very feasibly secure one of the 4 berths and would be even more likely to get the playoff berths. Even if Canada is allowed to take a spot (leaving 3 berths + 2 playoff), Jamaica is likely in to the playoffs at least if they act right.
In a normal cycle (like 2030), it's 7 total spots - 6 berths + a playoff spot. Jamaica in that case goes from the outsider looking in it has usually been to a team that is right in the thick of things, especially if it shows enough improvement to maybe knock of one of the 3 Central Americans who have historically given the most trouble (Costa Rica, Honduras, and Panama).

For the record, pretty much everything I said above can apply to Trinidad as well.

TL;DR: I'm super excited for World Cup expansion. I think it has basically dramatically increased the odds of me living my dream of seeing Jamaica in another World Cup before I die. In fact, it might ensure Jamaica will see several World Cups before such time (I assume I'll be around at least another 40 years). The use of such a young side in this Gold Cup was a positive, because quite a few of those pieces (Andre Blake, Alvas Powell, Damion Lowe, Romario Williams, Kevon Lambert, and a few others) are young enough to lead us right through to 2026. In short, we're already setting a foundation from now to prepare for what will be the most doable World Cup qualification in history.

 

Jamaica has done well against strong CONCACAF opponents by embracing the bunker/set pieces/counterattack style. Personally, I like and respect pragmatic soccer, but I would wonder whether most Jamaicans are okay with it long-term? Secondly, the challenge of CONCACAF is that you have to be able to grind out results on the road and against more talented opponents, for which bunkering is often a good tactic, but then you have to beat weaker opponents and win home games, and that tends to require more possession and figuring out how not to get bunkered and countered yourself. Jamaica has to figure out a plan for winning home games against opponents that are not the USA or Mexico or Costa Rica. The kind of tactics that can keep you close against one of those teams are generally not the tactics you need to get 3 points at home against Haiti or Panama or even Nicaragua.

 

Who cares if it's A, B or C team? We won and looks convincingly like the best team in the tournament.

I do think that the level of play was most similar to MLS playoffs and a far cry from World Cup group levels, let alone the knock out rounds but we did what we were supposed to do and unlike under JK, we looked the part while winning.

 

The answer is yes so long as it gets results. I think everyone would prefer the team be more capable of holding possession and creating its own chances, and that will happen if improvements are made in the midfield.

I think the formula for that was what you saw against Curacao in the group stage, Canada in the quarterfinals, and Mexico in the semi-finals - all games where Jamaica managed to do a little more than just bunker and actually kept possession. The El Salvador game was an example of this as well, although the execution was poor on that day.

As for winning at home, that will require a different approach. The previous coach wasn't sure how to make that happens, so the hope is that the current coach (who has had decent stints before in which he managed some home wins) will figure out the formula.

Nothing is a given and after the shenanigans that followed the excellent Gold Cup 2015 run I'm not going to presume anything about Jamaica's ability to maintain this momentum, but I will remain cautiously optimistic.

 

I watched a second time last night. Ya know...I thought we played well. We probed in many different ways and didn't let the tempo slow down or get frustrated. We were pretty clean in the middle third and kept them pinned in front of their own goal for long stretches. Final ball was difficult to find but that's been true of everyone they've played this tourney.

 

We were the strongest team in the tournament so we were supposed to win.

What's left is to rate players performance.

The level does matter because beating Costa Rica with only 3 stayers is no the same as beating Costa Rica with a full squad.

We are good enough to be a top concacaf country but outside of concacaf we have a lot to work on, good tactics can only get you so far.

 

A good observation is that Bruce knows American players better and concacaf players possibly a little better than Klinsmann. Klinsmann looked like he didn't pay much attention to concacaf, he used to do good vs European teams.

 

Since you are the only one to reply to my post, I'm not so much concerned that most people don't care that there is a delay as I am at the possibility that most people aren't even aware that there is a delay.

 

More than one Jamaican fan I was in contact with during and after the game expressed regret over the fact that Klinsmann had been let go. They can all see the difference.

 

Closer to MLS in March and April.