Before the World Cup in 2013 at one point we had a streak where we won 13 in a row (a program record), and 16 out of 17 outscoring our opponents 47 to 17. 2013 was a pretty damn good year. It's hard to say the team wasn't playing cohesively
They looked pretty cohesive offensively against the Netherlands and Germany in impressive back-to-back games in 2015. And against Germany again in 2013 in RFK. Beating Germany twice in impressive fashion?
I always used to see people refer to the German national team in English as "Die Mannschaft" and it mostly bemused me, because no one in Germany calls them that (it's just a generic term for team, not something that specifically refers to the national team)... and then the powers that be saw it too and decided it would be a good way to market the team.
You're right about the friendlies against NED and Germany. I was talking about pre-2014 WC but also, aside from those (where the US looked really good) it was almost always bleh, meh and ugh. Before the WC I gave him a lot of slack--new coach, has to have time to work his team the way he wants. After the WC, same s**t and no improvements, if not decline in terms of performance.
That's true, but I don't recall saying to myself during many of those games how good we were playing, wow this is an improvement over Bob, etc. I do remember trying to convince myself that there was magic in there somewhere, because Klinsmann, and that it was just a matter of time until it would be unlocked. There was never magic in there.
Okay but at the same token, the team looked pretty abysmal at the end of Bob Bradley's tenure. The friendly against Brazil in the new Red Bulls arena sticks out in my mind where Neymar went off and the U.S looked atrocious. Again, show me a coach who went out on his terms and still had the team looking good at the end. It usually doesn't work like that.
In Friendlies Jurgen met the kind of opponent he liked. But, for some strange reason, it turned out that friendlies were lousy indicators of what opponents would be like when it was no longer a friendly.
So coaches don't get credit for any wins with players that they eventually left off World Cup Squads?
If friendlies were as meaningless as pre-season NFL football I'd agree but I think they carry some weight and goals scored in friendlies count for the players scoring them. Not sure how long you've been watching the USMNT but there was a time in the mid to late 90's when beating Germany in any kind of competition would have been huge. And Klinsmann's team beat Italy too, another giant.
He got fired because he lost important results in competitive games. But he also won some. It's why he lasted 5 and a half years. To borrow a German phrase, "Auch ein blindes Huhn...". But really, 55 wins, 16 draws, 27 losses is not terrible, There were good stretches. 2014 WCQ, 2016 Copa America, and the 2013 Gold Cup stand out as pretty good.
Then what happened immediately after those friendlies in games that actually counted, against weaker opposition? It was amazing how much of a letdown the GC was after those games.
Not real sure. If I remember correctly the players on that European tour were mostly younger players, that was Bobby Wood's coming out party, Zardes really played well, Jordan Morris had good minutes, Danny Williams played well as did Mike Bradley, Mix Diskeruud looked terrific. Then they went into the Gold Cup and looked lethargic imo that whole tournament for whatever reason.
If a player is the engine of a team during a triumphant run, but then the coach indulges himself by dismissing the player from the WC in a fit of personal pique, then this coach has a choice. He can demand the credit be his for that triumphant run, and then embrace fault for allowing himself to be so small as to let the personal interfere with the good of the team. Or, if he prefers, he can refuse to accept any fault for the dismissal of the player and then accept that he is due no credit for that triumphant run powered by that player. Either choice, if taken, would be an act of integrity. But, Sebsasour, if the coach wants to mix and match to his convenience, happy to take credit and enraged at the notion of having to accept fault, well, then, there is Jurgen Klinsmann.
You can criticize the omission all you want but that doesn't negate the fact that a team he coached did pretty damn well in 2013. BTW Donovan missed about half the games during that win streak. My point is that the 5 year Kilnnsmann era had numerous highs and numerous lows ,as well numerous bold decisions, some good and some bad. My view is his tenure should judged by that. You seem to think his tenure should be judged by one roster spot in one tournament. A tournament that I remind you we did better than expected in
I thought Klinsmann's biggest issue was not communicating with his players, not the Donovan omission. The thing I was very disappointed with at the time Donovan was cut was the form that he was in at the time, not the fact that he was cut. I'm still not sure which loss bothers me more, the Gold Cup final thrashing by Mexico in 2011 under Bob Bradley or the Jamaica loss in 2015 under Klinsmann.
The difference between what Lehman offered Germany and what injured players Green and Johansson, and limited players Brad Davis and Michael Diskerud offered is gigantic. USMNT was in no place to leave Donovan home.
You/one could not know about this ahead of the WC. Lehmann was the eternal no.2 ahead of the WC who never quite made it at home or abroad. Kahn was voted best player in 2002 and it seemed like Klinsmann deliberately demoted the only halfway world class player and captain Germany had at the time. At the GK position thats a far bigger impact than in the field. What is Italy if you take Buffon away? You're seeing this whole Donovan situation from a very US-centrist pov. Im saying, look outside the box and recognize that it was nothing special. Here is a German documentary about this(parts 1 to 3)
@White/Blue_since1860 Lehmann was a great player, was starting for a finalist in the Champions League. And also, Kahn was still on the damn team! The guys who took Donovan's roster spot were nobodies . It's not comparable.
From a German pov Lehnman was a nobody. He says in the documentary he was lucky a new coach came in who watched other leagues than Buli.
And then Arena and the US defeated Germany again in the Confederations Cup that year, 2-0. Unlike other elite soccer national teams like Spain and Brazil, I know Germany doesn't really care about second-tier tournaments, but it's still a victory for the US over Germany in an official competition.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Green's injury was known. Johansson's injury was known. Davis's limitations were known. And Klinsmann certainly knew he didn't rate Diskerud with game minutes. Yes it was a dick move. It was brought up at the time. But Lehmann was a very good keeper who was not undeserving of a start - it's more like Keller vs. Fridel.