News: Sunday, July 16, 2017

Oh my good lord. Apparently the U.S. sucks because the odd random youth program that helps produce a top player doesn't get solidarity payments when the player is transferred between professional clubs - despite the fact that the youth club offers no professional pathway.

Spare me.

 

I'm not gonna waste my time reading that "article" but I bet the "journalist" forgets to mention that the youth program is pay to play.............

 

It's not a journalist. It's a low grade entry level Ted Westervelt type that has locked onto their mission. I couldn't get all the way through, but apparently there are "studies" and appeals to the powers that be, and let's not forget the fundraising. Always the fundraising.

 

Smart. Very smart.

 

You forgot to mention the petition. Cause that shit is what will make US Soccer sit up and take notice, for sure.

 

I did say "appeals to the powers that be"

 

I remember Frank Beckenbauer said years ago that in order for soccer to become big, the national team has to get results. I'm not so sure if that theory still applies or not but in my opinion, I don't buy the notion of because our best athletes aren't playing the game. How are you going to get a 300 pound NFL lineman or a 7ft tall NBA forward in a soccer uniform? Even baseball players do not share the same characteristics that soccer players do. Maybe GK's could adapt to other top US sports but I doubt many other positions can and vice versa. A playmaking player like a Baggio or Maradona could never play baseball , basketball or American football. Same goes for an NFL QB. He may have hand eye coordination but eye to feet to instinct is a completely different animal altogether.

I think MLS will start becoming a great league when their younger players start excelling for club and country and at that point the game will start succeeding on the international level. It may not be the case now or in 5-10 years but if MLS makes the strides they have made in the last decade, there is no telling where the league will go. I'm sure it will happen it's just a matter of when not if.

 

The athletes who are potentially great are often mediocre basketball guards, acceptably good college football cornerbacks, or minor-league baseball players. Or they pursue any number of other sports to college, then move on to a more typical life.

 

I lol'd when the article said the US takes Volleyball & Water Polo seriously. It was all downhill from there...

 

I still don't think you can compare sports. I don't believe a great wrestler , heavyweight boxer or Quarterback can be a good a midfielder or forward. Warren Sapp playing soccer for example , would be laughable. I haven't seen any evidence of it. I remember Tony Meola was drafted by the New York Yankees and old NASL Bob Stetler was a wrestler in college but both of them were GK's and they made a fairly easy transition. I can't think of too many others.

Maybe a few track players could play but I have my doubts about other sports. Usain Bolt loves soccer but no one knows if he can play the game. A 6ft 3 Steve Nash supposedly loved soccer but playing and excelling is a different story. I remember his brother played soccer for the Canadian national team but he wasn't all that great.

 

The US already has better athletes playing soccer then most other countries. Finding athletes isn't an issue for the US..............it's the whole coaching soccer thing that has been impeding the growth of the game.

From a technical and tactical ability standpoint, the US is way behind. The pay to play and travel soccer model does not help to consistently develop players. These models emphasize making money and winning. These kids play multiple games in a weekend, with little rest. They barely practice too. How exactly is this supposed to help develop players?

Is it really a surprise that the pay to play clubs in MLS markets all started moaning & groaning when MLS teams started their own academies? They were rightly scared of their gravy trains drying up.

 

Another reason Andrea Pirlo is completely lost in this league and finds himself on a bench earning $6 million....

 

This is all that needs to be said on this beaten-to-death topic. Croatia and Uruguay COMBINED have a population smaller than NYC, but both are border-line Top 10 teams if not Top 10. Even with soccer as the #4 sport in the US (324 million) at best, I refuse to believe that Croatia (4 million) and Uruguay (3 million) have more "best athletes" to work with than US soccer. You can have all the "best athletes" to draw from and still won't amount to much if your players never developed a proper first touch, how to pass, read the game, etc. Our geography (having numerous population centers spread across four time zones), combined with lack of coaching/scouting to cover all that ground, are bigger detriments than "lack of athletes."

 

You have to remember that often professional athletes have "molded" their body to fit a particular sport or position. There are boxers who have to work really hard to be as big as they are for boxing. Many of these athletes could have trained to play other sports. Of course my point doesn't always stand. Obviously someone that is 7 feet can't change that, and some people are just massive even without working at it.
But just keep in mind that an NFL running back or receiver could easily have the body type to play other sports if they trained for said sport instead of spending 1000's of hours in the gym lifting weights.

Your points on Usain and Steve Nash are exactly the points others are talking about. Those guys are not professional soccer players because they have spent their time training for other sports. If they had instead spent their time training for soccer...who knows. Maybe they wouldn't have excelled, maybe they would have.

That all said I still agree with the post above. I think it is more an issue of coaching and development.

 

And it's not Steve Nash or Le'Veon Bell per se, but the thousands of players who didn't become them that went down that path.

Professional sports is a numbers game. Here's an old blog I wrote for BigSoccer
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/where-next-part-one.2041195/

Only a few thousand will make it to the top of the NCAAs and the NFL.

But it's 3.6 million kids that have started the sports differentiation process that removes them from the talent pool available to soccer.

 

Regardless of how they trained , how much weight and muscle they gained growing up, it would be next to impossible to see Leo Messi, Diego Maradona, George Best , Kevin Keegan, Gianfranco Zola and Roby Baggio and many other top soccer players play in the NHL, NBA or NFL. None them could have been a professional basketball forward or guard , a hockey center, a defensive player , runningback, Quarterback or a wide receiver. Not unless they all grew another 3-5 inches and gained 50-100 pounds depending on the sport. Only a select few under 6ft could play those sports. I doubt a 5 ft 8 inch Pelé will have been successful in most other American sports, for that matter. Another reason on why I don't buy the theory of top athletes choosing to play other sports as opposed to soccer. Maybe a small percentage could do it, but I question the amount or the impact they would have. As it is, we have top athletes currently playing soccer . Michael Bradley at Roma for example was marveled at his athleticism and he was constantly praised for his running. The athletic part wasn't his problem but it was his technique that he set him back. He didn't get rated highly because he wasn't running or because he was not a great athlete so this isn't the main issue on why soccer isn't succeeding internationally. Alessandro Nesta stated the same thing while at Montreal. Players in MLS run like animals (in a good way) its just the tactics and skills that are lacking.

 

You completely ignored my post. I am not talking about the reverse. I am saying that many NBA and NFL skill position players could play soccer if they had trained for it. Also, I wasn't aware that NHL players are that big or tall. I think you are mistaken on that but I don't follow hockey. Based on my very quick search it looks like the average NHL player is 6'1". That means there are lots under 6'0".
There have also been lots of 6 foot range players in NBA. There have been many others that the stats say they are 6'0" or 6'1" when they are in fact closer to 5'10". Sports like basketball and football often exaggerate size. 24 players in NBA history under 6 foot. I know that isn't many but you stating those guys couldn't have played NBA as a matter of fact is very mistaken.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shortest_players_in_National_Basketball_Association_history
Charles Barkley played as a forward/center at 6'6" and was a star player. This was in the days of dominating 7 footers. I also believe saying he is 6'6" is generous. People have excelled many times when their height or body type don't fit the typical mold.

There have also been many running backs under 6'0" and 1 or 2 quarterbacks. I am not sure what your point is. But just because a soccer player seems small or a running back seems big doesn't mean they couldn't play another other sport. I am not even sure what makes you think that. Look at the people that have changed their body size multiple times in their adult life. People go from fat to skinny, skinny to fat, muscular to basic, basic to muscular all the time.

 

I did read your post. I reiterate with the exception of s select few as I stated, none of those players I posted, the greatest soccer players who ever played the game could have played those other sports. Mugsy Bouges who never did much notwithstanding, would make memake me believe otherwise. Therefore I still don't believe this theory and I see no proof or evidence to the contrary

 

24 players in NBA history under 6 foot some of them not that spectacular of athletes doesn't make you believe that some of the guys you mentioned which some of them are insane athletes could have played any other sport?

Wow!!!!

That still doesn't change the fact that the original argument by you was that no NFL or NBA players could play professional soccer even if they had grown up training for soccer. That is just ridiculous.

 

Out of all the players you came up with, you are cherry picking Twenty four players in history? This is all you came up with? Muggsy Bogues and Spud Webb were top NBA players, seriously? They are one in a million who made in in the NBA and they never amounted to much. Joe Montana may have been able to play soccer maybe Tom Brady but I still don't believe too many could have and also they aren't necessarily top athletes. Again they were great with hand eye coordination and great instincts and arms but that doesn’t mean they will have been able to kick a soccer ball effectively.

Believe whatever you want but I just don't believe in this theory or concept and I still don't see how Messi or Maradona could have played successfully in the MLB, NBA or the NFL.

 

You are moving the goal posts now, and multiple times.

1. first you said no NFL players could have played professional soccer even if they had focused on that sport.
2. you said that NFL, NBA and NHL players are too big to play soccer.
3. then you stated matter of factly a list of short soccer players could have never played NBA
4. then you said none of them could have been stand outs.
5. then you admitted some nfl players could possibly played soccer.
6. stated Muggsy Bogues never did much.
7. accused me of cherry picking

What in the world is your point?

My responses

1. many NFL skill position players and NBA players could have played soccer or other sports had they focused on them. To think otherwise is insane.
2. many NFL skill position, NBA guards and many NHL players (average height 6'1") are not too big to play soccer.
3. I showed 24 players under 6 foot have played in the NBA. Showing that being under 6 foot does not disqualify you from playing in the NBA. This is 100% proof that athletes under 6 can and have played in the league. What is the point anyway as there are also many professional soccer players over 6 foot?
4. Some of them have been standouts and all-stars (Isaiah Thomas, Calvin Murphy, Nate Robinson, Spud Webb)
5. Exactly. You agreed with exactly what I said. Some NFL players could play soccer if they had focused on it.
6. Muggsy Bogues was actually a pretty good player. Played for 16 seasons. Averaged almost 8 points a game and almost 8 assists a game for 16 seasons. He also almost averaged 3 rebounds a game. That is almost averaging a double double. Many Many 6'6" players would kill for those stats. He actually had a season where he did average a double double.
7. Cherry picking? You picked the shortest guy out of 24 to talk about while ignoring a current star Isaiah Thomas. Averages over 22 points a game and over 6 assists a game. You also cherry picked a list of short soccer players out of the millions that have played the game.

 

No I'm not moving anything. I stand by my initial belief. In regards to size and height, I already posted what I believed and that there are only a select (very) few exceptions but I still don't see how this top athletes in other sports could excel in soccer nor do I see how or why this is the reason on why soccer isn't succeeding because the "top athletes" aren't choosing the sport over others. I just don't see much evidence of it. That was my initial belief and I don’t know why this is such a bad thing to post or why I can’t believe this.