Unpopular USMNT or US Soccer Opinions

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by GiallorossiYank, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Agree that taking only the top to bottom competitveness is not a good yardstick but when the leagues lack competitiveness it is difficult to gauge anything other then the quality of the top teams in the inter-league matches (Champions League etc).

    Hypothetical: Let's just say that MLS changed the rules so that two teams (LA and New York) could spend unlimited amounts of money while the other teams were left with the salary restrictions. If LA and NY were able to build great teams that were competitive with the Bayern Munich's and Real Madrid's of the world, how would that reflect on the strength of the league? I know that is an extreme example but it really isn't too far off from what happened in the old NASL when the Cosmos signed Pele, Beckenbauer etc.

    I would say that the more competitive the league is top to bottom, the easier it is to determine the strength of the league as a whole. If the league is not competitive top to bottom, than what we are looking at in the top teams (and possibly the bottom teams as well) are outliers. If those outliers are the same teams that are competing in interleague competitions with other teams that are themselves outliers. How can you compare the quality of the leagues when you are only comparing teams that are not representative of the overall quality of the leagues. What it comes down to is a guesstimate on how much worse the rest of the league is compared to the top teams.
     
  2. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Because the games without Cameron certainly included such powerhouses as New Zealand, Serbia's domestic all-stars, and Jamaica's B team. Without Cameron the USA only won one of those!
     
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  3. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Considering this is the "Unpopular Opinions" thread, I don't think it is off topic at all! I don't really have an opinion one way or the other but I think that is a good one!
     
  4. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I recall the Serbia and Zealand games were largely not won due to piss poor attacking not a lack of Cameron's center back ability.

    W/L records don't tell a whole lot
     
  5. Skandal!!!

    Skandal!!! Member

    Legia Warszawa
    Poland
    Apr 26, 2017
    OK, I agree with that, but only having other teams compete head to head against teams from different leagues you will know this, otherwise, it is just an estimate. In the same way, if MLS doesn't compete in CONCAF CL (or Libertadores, or whatever else Cup competition CONCAF can come up with), we will not know how good in real quality of play their teams really are, because they would only be playing themselves (Champions of their own Block).

    Bundesliga, EPL, La Liga, Serie A are assumed to be strong leagues, because through decades of European football competition different teams from these leagues have won numerous cups, and not because of their superteams (they also come from large countries which is good for marketing).
     
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  6. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Looking pretty prescient!

    Updated totals:

    W/ Cameron the USMNT is 11-2-1 (+24 GD)
    W/O Cameron the USMNT is 1-2-3 (-4 GD)
     
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  7. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    He was my MOM against Mexico.
     
  8. salvikicks

    salvikicks Member+

    Mar 6, 2006
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cameron is the leader of that defense, he keeps the entire backline in check.
     
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  9. Roblar

    Roblar Member

    Sep 15, 2000
    The 73072
    Unpopular opinion?

    I'd still like to see Mix playing an active role for us.
     
  10. schlomo

    schlomo Red Card

    F.C. Dallas
    United States
    Apr 6, 2017
    Cameron is also a contributor offensively. He passes well out of the back, helps retain possession with composed play on the ball, and can be an offensive threat on set pieces (he can also rip shots on goal from around the edge of the area if he can ever get up there).

    Cameron is underrated, IMO. He's one of the best defensive players in the history of the program.
     
  11. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Time to resurrect this one.

    Unpopular Opinion: I think many of our youngsters would have been better off staying in the USA.

    Case Study: Rubio Rubin, IMG Academy graduate.

    Report: Anyone who saw Rubin play with Utrecht when he was 18/19 wouldn't say he didn't fit. He looked like a very promising young playmaker, with good vision, decent passing, and able to keep the ball under pressure. His failings were limited dribbling ability, lack of aerial delivery, and (the worst) lack of composure when 1-vs-1 against a keeper.

    Current Situation: At 21, he's a bencher for Stabaek in Norway's Eliteserien, with only one minute league play.

    Problem: Many other players with less tools than Rubin has, and older, are playing in better clubs --and actually playing. Having followed him, I find it inexcusable that he's not even playing for a bottom-half club in a league that is weaker than MLS (#27 per UEFA Coefficient).


    This case is by far not unique. A very recent example is Shane O'Neill, who went from having a good 16/17 season with Breda to now sitting on the bench for Excelsior (a weaker club, for whatever reason Breda didn't buy him).
     
  12. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Easier said than done, many of these players wouldn't get a chance in MLS either. His local club only signed their first HGP this season.
     
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  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    His injury didnt didn't have anything to do with his career path?

    Those failings seem significant... how does hiding those in MLS make him an international quality player?

    Why do you care if he doesn't have the talent to perform at that level?

    Did Shane O'Neil have the potential to be a difference maker at the international level? If not, why do you care?

    Players haven't failed in MLS? How many YNT players haven't broken through with just the Galaxy in recent years?
     
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  14. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Perhaps, but (with similar justification) wouldn't it be confusing if every BS thread had that exact same title?
     
  15. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, and unfortunately, the typical Europhile's response is that somehow this is ok, because they weren't good enough, anyway.


    It's substantially a lot more going on than that.
     
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  16. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't understand why everyone acts like match fixing doesn't happen. We constantly hear about matches that we saw in the past that were fixed. But anytime you point out the possibility that a match is fixed as you're watching it, people either brush it off or point their finger at you and laugh.

    I am of the opinion that every usmnt match in Central America is fixed in some way. Thus, I found Lalas' whinefest to be nothing more than a scripted, self-serving, dramatization designed solely to put all eyes on him. To me, it's pointless to criticize a team when the other team is going in studs up on every single play and there often isn't even a foul called. That's not soccer. Hell, that's not even football. If you tried to pull that shit in football you'd get blind sided and wake up in concussion protocol.
     
  17. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #367 HomietheClown, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
    Personally, I think the main reason it is difficult for people to believe match fixing occurs often is the plain and simple fact that there would be some sort of evidence that would come out. Secrets are not easy to keep.

    The way I see it in this modern day of technology and social media and video cameras everywhere it is much more difficult to fix something without major scrutiny on decisions bringing out an investigation.
    It would also be difficult for me to imagine a whistle blower not coming out and saying hey I know something the media wants to know. Pay me a bunch of money and I will leak the juicy gossip. People love money.

    I think Refs are human and they make mistakes and they feel pressure by the crazy fans in the stands. That pressure can make them do stupid and unwise decisions.
    But to go out there and say that every game is fixed is just plain unjustified and illogical.
     
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  18. The411

    The411 Member

    Oct 12, 2013

    Not really. It's the same as college football recruiting in essence. There are plenty of 5 star and 4 star recruits who don't have great college football careers for a variety of reasons. The same can be said for highly touted football talents. Plenty of kids who are billed as the next Messi, Iniesta, Hazard, Ronaldo etc.
     
  19. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    What's a Europhile?
     
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  20. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Those who'd play a Vaduz bencher over an MLS starter.
     
  21. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Caleb Stanko? Former u20 captain? 17 minutes against T&T, up 4-0 on sept. 7, 2016? Bencher? If giving him those minutes makes me a europhile, count me in.

    What do we call those who would play a 30 yo Dax McCarty over 270 minutes in the middle of struggling through WCQ and a year before the WC?

    I would hope for a more specific definition at some point.

    Day Date Home/Away For vs. Result Pos.
    2 7/31/16 H (5.) FC Basel (1.) 1:5 DM 90'
    3 8/7/16 A (9.) FC Lugano (5.) 0:2 DM 90'
    4 8/10/16 H (5.) FC Luzern (3.) 1:3 DM 90'
    5 8/21/16 H (7.) FC St. Gallen (9.) 2:0 DM 24'
    6 8/27/16 A (4.) FC Sion (10.) 3:1 DM 32'
    7 9/11/16 A (7.) Lausanne-Sport (5.) 5:0 DM 28'
    8 9/21/16 H (8.) BSC Young Boys (2.) 0:0 CM 64'

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/caleb...16&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=
     
  22. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The term our far right and nationalistic posters use as an attempted passive aggressive insult as they don't like foreigners or things they consider non-American, would be my guess.

    It's basically a soccer version of "build the wall".
     
  23. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Eurosnob is the pejorative. Europhile would be just be someone who heavily favors European soccer even from a context of being an American fan. The reverse of eurosnob is usually just "butthurt MLS fanboy," often thrown around by people who become irate just because someone enjoys MLS or thinks that overall it has been beneficial to American soccer.
     
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  24. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmmmm...it would be far too easy to do unto this post what the poster thinks does unto the folks he attempts to aggressive aggressively insult.
    Jond, Oenophilia led you to conclude "in Vino Veritas"?? Guess again.
     
  25. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Panama or Honduras makes the WC, you may see an MLS based team.
     

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