Last year, the final in New York sucked, as did this year in Kansas City, in terms of attendance. In addition, there are football lines on the field, teams playing in their home stadiums, and a lack of passion on the field, probably due to a lack of fans in the seats. So, here are my ideas to spice up the US Open Cup: 1. Play the final at the same place every year. 2. Play the games in smaller settings, in a real soccer stadium. 3. Find a way to raise the purse price. 4. Get better media coverage (who watches GolTV? anyone??) I believe a solution to this could lie within St. Louis. The city, and the county, has a strong soccer following (very strong in fact), and Saint Louis University has an amazing stadium for which to play in at Hermann Stadium. St. Louis would be a neutral site, and just like the Fire did @ North Central College, SLU could install extra bleachers on its two endlines (which are currently occupied by grass). Currently, Hermann Stadium seats approx. 6,000, but with extra seating put on the two endlines, it could easily be raised to 10,000, which would create a good atmosphere for the game itself. Admitedly, the Open Cup doesn't raise much attention, and for now, a 10,000 seat stadium would suit it well. Also, I noticed that the sponsor boards at the final in KC were all US Soccer boards. Get some sponsors, any sponsors, and raise the tournament champion purse. Finally, go back to showing the game on FSW, or work something out to feature the final on a bigger network for a larger TV audience.
How do you propose to force FSW to show a match that they don't want to? Let alone a bigger network? You know, I was all set to rip into your post, but then I thought about it. If Oklahoma City can host an MLS exhibition match and get 8,000 (or however many there were) people to show up, how many people could a place like that get if they were hosting the Open Cup Final instead? Sure, most casual soccer fans have no clue what the Open Cup is, but if you tell them its a match between two MLS teams, you'd get at least as many people as you would for an exhibition game. On the other hand, Chicago got 20,000 people for the Open Cup final. Would you rather host that match in front of 10,000 people someplace else?
Just ask them real nice. Actually, GolTV has a three-year contract, so they'll have it through the 2006 final. St.Louis actually isn't that bad an idea in theory. Except you'll have to get two sets of fans to travel instead of just one, and I'm not convinced St.Louisans will make up the difference. I said it on the air last night (and posted it last week) - they have to get the final of our national championship off some random Wednesday after school gets back in session and put it on a Saturday. If this tournament is important enough that Don Garber can travel to KC for it, it's important enough for the sport for MLS to clear its calendar and have Cup Final Day be a standalone celebration. You already blow off a Saturday for the fricking worthless All-Star Game, you can do this instead of that. And in 9 years, 16 of the 18 final spots have gone to MLS teams anyway, so it's not like they're going to have to sit back and watch two A-League teams go at it. Worst case, schedule everybody for the Sunday and leave the Saturday alone, and when you know who the finalists are, shift their MLS games from the Saturday to another date (I know that sucks, too, but I'm just sayin', there are ways to do this). But burying the final at a time of year when attention is focused on other things and putting it during the week on a school night on a TV network that is still growing and trying to build a potential audience is counterproductive.
I think it's going to be an uphill battle for the USOC as long as MLS has a post-season playoff. But that's a long way off it it happens at all. Until then, I agree with Kenn on the holding it on a Saturday. I'd avoid Sunday like the plague though unless you plan on having the final before the NFL kicks off. Kudos to MLS on the webcast though, did appreciate that.
You were able to get a decent crowd in Indianapolis that one time, right? I think the St. Louis idea could work if they had a good local promoter to sell it to the locals and played it on a Saturday which would make it easier for fans of the teams to travel. Start small, don't bother expanding the 6,000-seat stadium unless demand really warrants it, and build up the tradition. If I were king I would say drop the All-Star game, end the season one week earlier, play the cup final the weekend after the season, and start the playoffs the week after that.
I like this on one level, and the Hall is great, and the winners should have their pictures taken in front of the giant ball bursting through the wall. But... is there anyplace more centrally isolated than Oneonta, New York? Where would the teams (and the TV crews) fly in to? Binghamton? Scranton- Wilkes Barre? Newburgh? It seems like it would cause a fair bit of logistical problems.
I was going to write that they should hold the Cup final at the National Soccer Hall of Fame. I understand it would be tough for fans of the teams to have to travel that distance, but it would be neat to have it at the same location (and the National Soccer Hall of Fame no less).
St. Louis is a perfect place to host the US Open Cup! First off, look at the youth soccer programs in St. Louis: Busch/St. Louis Soccer Club, Scott Gallagher SC, CBC HS, Chaminade HS, SLUH, etc. In terms of national youth rankings (and for demographic purposes), St. Louis always has some soccer to talk about. The city is a cozy one (it's not like NYC, LA or Chicago), the population is around 2 million, including metro areas, and there is no profesional soccer team in St. Louis! Fans would FLOCK to a CUP FINAL if given the opportunity, especially if two MLS teams made the final. Also, Saint Louis University itself would be a perfect host. The school's soccer program is rich in NCAA soccer history, and the stadium and campus are simply beautiful, considering Midtown and Grand Center (the areas where SLU is located) aren't. When seated on the west stands of Hermann Stadium, the Gateway Arch is in PERFECT sight for all the fans, and since SLU doesn't have an American football team, it's a soccer-only facility. And again, I have to reiterate that the Open Cup is still a small tournament in the American sports landscape, and having it played in a small venue is a good thing, at least until it gets the respect it deserves. Oh, and I hate Wheelock's suggestion to play the game in Oneonta every year. It would be fitting to have the Cup final be played alongside Hall of Fame ceremonies, but it's not a good idea. The stadium is TOO small, the town is small, and not many people seem to care too much about the National Soccer Hall of Fame anyways.
Yeah, they were. Funny thing is, some of the same people who were in on that were in on the beginnings of the Indiana Blast (then in D3) pro team, and they couldn't sell that to save their lives. Let me put it this way - it's worth a try. At least St.Louis has a historical thing going for it, it probably has a good enough venue for it, it's a major airline hub and centrally located, and it might become like Omaha is for the College World Series or Williamsport is for the Little League World Series. I like the Oneonta idea, too, in theory. But from what I understand, it's pretty fricking hard to get to Oneonta.
Well, does anyone know if I could contact the US Soccer Fed., and at least pitch my idea for SLU to host the US Open Cup final? I honestly believe it would work, and it would be a great setting. If anyone knows any contact info, please let me know. Or, for that matter, if Peter Wilt reads this, maybe he can just run with it...
If you are flying to NY State or the Tri-State Area. Head over to LaGuardia Airport in Queens or Newark Airport in New Jersey. Transfer on a small shuttle plane to Albany County Airport. Then rent a car and here are futher directions from the airport. Depart Albany County Airport on Local road(s) (South) 142 yds Turn LEFT (East) onto Airport Access Rd 0.5 mi Bear LEFT (South-East) onto SR-155 [CR-151] 0.8 mi Continue (South-East) on CR-151 [Shaker Rd] 76 yds At I-87 Exit 4, turn RIGHT (West) onto I-87 [Adirondack Northway] 3.2 mi At I-87 Exit 1/I-90 Exit 1, bear RIGHT (West) onto I-90 [I-87] 0.5 mi Toll road* At I-87 Exit 24, stay on I-90 [I-87] (North-West) 10.8 mi At I-88 Exit 25A, turn LEFT (West) onto I-88 61.2 mi At I-88 Exit 15, turn RIGHT (North) onto SR-23 0.6 mi Bear RIGHT (North) onto Maple St 142 yds Arrive Oneonta SUMMARY Driving distance: 77.8 miles Total travel time: 1 hour, 18 minutes Driving time: 1 hour, 18 minutes Driving up from NYC Depart Manhattan on W 45th St (West) 0.2 mi Turn LEFT (South) onto 7th Ave 0.1 mi Continue (South) on 7th Ave [Fashion Ave] 0.1 mi Turn RIGHT (West) onto W 39th St 0.6 mi Bear RIGHT (North-West) onto Ramp 65 yds Merge onto I-495 [Lincoln Tunnel Expy] (West) 4.0 mi Entering New Jersey Turn off onto Ramp 0.2 mi *Tollbooth* Stay on Ramp (North) 0.4 mi *Toll road* Merge onto I-95 [New Jersey Tpke] (North) 4.7 mi Stay on I-95 [New Jersey Tpke] (North) 1.1 mi Turn off onto Ramp 0.2 mi Merge onto I-80 (West) 2.6 mi At I-80 Exit 64A, turn off onto Ramp 0.2 mi Merge onto SR-17 (North) 17.6 mi Continue (North) on I-287 [SR-17] 0.5 mi Entering New York Turn off onto Ramp 0.7 mi *Toll road* Merge onto I-87 [New York State Thwy] (North) 83.3 mi At I-87 Exit 21, turn RIGHT (South-East) onto CR-23B 43 yds Bear RIGHT (South) onto State Hwy [CR-23B] 0.5 mi Bear RIGHT (West) onto Local road(s) 43 yds Bear RIGHT (West) onto Local road(s) 54 yds Bear RIGHT (North-West) onto SR-23 71.8 mi Turn RIGHT (North) onto SR-23 [SR-28] 0.2 mi At I-88 Exit 15, continue (North) on SR-23 0.6 mi Bear RIGHT (North) onto Maple St 142 yds Arrive Oneonta SUMMARY Driving distance: 189.7 miles Total travel time: 3 hours, 33 minutes Driving time: 3 hours, 33 minutes Cost: $9.55 Personally. I would say cross the George Washington Bridge and go Rte 4 West to Rte 17 North. Avoid the Lincoln Tunnel. To complicated. But there you have it folks. Hope that help you out.
Well Marchetti; let's start with #1 & #2. The last time U.S.S.F. set the venue for the Open Cup Final regardless of the teams competing therein was 1999. It put the Final in Columbus, OH. at Crew Stadium, which certainly qualifies for your idea #2. What happens? The Rochester RAGING RHINOS upset the CREW (at Crew Stadium) in the semi-final. So for the Final, the stands are 7/8th full of boosters from Rochester. An incredible number - and the game was on a Tuesday night. And Rochester defeated the Colorado RAPIDS by 2-0 to win the Cup. You have probably figured out that there weren't any boosters from Colorado at this match. But U.S.S.F. feels it may be better to have some more local fans in the stands, and the Open Cup Final is its annual prestige event. So since then, it has put the Final at the home of one of its finalists. #3. The money is not a significant objective for the teams. What makes it enticing for the teams is the opportunity to play more significant matches against a team or teams which you would not otherwise schedule - whether they're Division II or lower, or just out of the vicinity. And if you win (or maybe even just get to the Final), you will be entered in a CONCACAF club tournament. #4. I read an interview with Allen Hopkins on Soccer Loop. What he answered when Steven Hopkins asked him about Fox Sports World and the U.S. Open Cup strongly hints that there was a swift, last-moment manuever which wound up having the Final on GOL TV. When I printed the Autumn issue of "Incendiary Words" on 7 September, my text still had the match being on FSW. I get GOL TV. I do not get Comcast SportsNet Chicago. As for what I believe should be done in the tournament: Yes, move the game back to a weekend date. Tuesdays & Wednesdays, especially in September or October, are not going to draw. The thing which most dissatisfies me about the Tournament is its tie-breaking procedure. I accept that we now will have "Silver Goal" overtime (2 × 15-minute periods). But, if a match, but not the Final, is still level after 120 minutes; then... both teams are eliminated. Their would-be opponent get a walkover into the round after the next.
Welcome back to bigsoccer, Pudgy. Umm, the attendance at the USOC final in Columbus in 1999 was under 4500, which is a long shot from rendering CCS "7/8th full of boosters from Rochester." The proportion may very well have been 7 Rhino fans for every one Rapid fan (hell, given how badly the Rapids played in the second half of 1999, it was probably not even that good), but CCS was pretty far from full. As to your conclusion... I can only hope you forgot to enable the button.
OK, I'll bite on this... I can see a case where both semifinals have no winner, so all four teams get eliminated. Not only do you not have a champion, you have NO FINAL to play.
1 - Agreed 2 - Agreed 3 - Agreed 4 - Agreed and my suggestions: 5 - play it as the LAST game of the season, after the MLS Cup 6 - Advertise it as the FA Cup, so people get interested. 7 - place more focus on the cup as it does get u into a CONCACAF comp (dunno which one!) 8 - US Soccer to make it as important as the MLS Cup. 9 - Make it so important to get that winning the double should be rewarded. 10 - have a US OC v English FA winner challenge match! that will get people interested!!
A thing I notice is that it seems many MLS fans do not understand the USL, therefore, they don't understand why, say, Des Moines, or Va. Beach, appears on next weeks schedule for MLS Team X. If MLS (or the USSF) were to remedy that somehow, I think interest across the board in pro soccer could increase. The USOC is a great tourney; it just seems to confuse a lot of people by its very existence, though. Also, by coincidence, I was kind of pondering a revamped USOC at work today. I came up with a 32 team tourney, with 10 MLS, 7 AL, 7 PSL, 4 PDL, and 4 USASA teams. I would like to see a random draw each round, definitely with the caveat that MLS teams are not to be drawn together unless mathematically unavoidable. Also, I'd like to see derbies be more important, so I worked them into "the earliest possible round". So if KC Wizards and KC Brass (PDL team) were both to get in, they'd have to face eachother in the first round. Now, obviously a derby final would be great, but I see no way to guarantee that, so I figure the earliest draw would ensure a darby at all.
Not that it matters, since it is two months since the incarnation of this thread, but the USSF placards and such were all over BECAUSE they are the wizards sponser. They're our primary jersey sponser, too, in case no one bothered to watch any wizards soccer in the past four years.
Your suggestions. My answers #5 They tried that already and it still didn't do well #6 No. Advertise it as is. This is the US OPEN CUP! Stop bringing these England FA Cup name changing nonsense. #7 Not anymore. The semi-final winners of the MLS Cup goes to the Champions Cup of CONCACAF now. #8 That's what we all have been screaming about #9 Read #8. #10 That will never, ever happen. Do you think the Brits are going to allow their FA Cup champion take on our US Open Cup Champion? It's an interesting idea, but I can assure you the English FA will say no. The summer months are too precious for a footballer playing in Europe to take a break. Like the Euro Championships & World Cup.
Not trying to shoot down anyones ideas but we have to be realistic here. We can't change the name of the tournament into the FA Cup. We can inform the people that it's just like the FA Cup in England, but we can't change the name of it here. Just like in Germany. They have the German Cup, In Italy the Italian Cup, The French Cup in France. This is the US Open Cup plain & simple. Just promote it better, advertise it better, make it better all over the board. Fox Sports World decided not to renew the contract to show the US Open Cup Final anymore that's why thank Goodness Gol TV did. Even if you can't get it at home, or at the nearest Pub, someone else will have it. Improving the tournament will come later as time passes. But for now the main objective is to promote and advertise the US Open Cup as much as possible. Here is one way to help with the promotion department. Baseball & Hockey have their minor League teams before those players reach the majors. Tell them imagine a 2nd tournament that allows all teams both major leagues and minor leagues to fight for the best team in the entire country. Imagine the Syracuse Sky Chiefs Blue Jays Triple A team facing off against the Toronto Blue Jays of Major League Baseball and the game truly counts for something. That will truely spark some intrest. A co-worker asked me about it and I told him what the US Open Cup is and he couldn't believe what I was telling him. He said to me "This happens every year?" I told him yes. He was so excited and flabbergasted he couldn't believe there was such a competition. To my knowledge this is the best explination. Get your co-workers interested in the US Open Cup and then they will get interested in the MLS or the USL which ever league he or she wants to get into.
My make-believe US Open Cup: - Throughout the tournament, if two teams from different levels meet, the lower-level team has the option of hosting the game. MLS-USL 1, USL 2-PDL, etc. This creates more chances for upsets and a bigger financial boost for smaller teams. - Make it extremely simple and cheap for amateur teams around the country to enter. A simple one-page application, small entry fee of $100 or less. Try to make it an all-inclusive national championship for all soccer players in the country. It doesn't matter that 99% of those teams will not make it out of state qualifying, it will get all those players to pay a little more attention the tournament as it progresses. - First stage - state qualifying for all teams outside of MLS and USL. One team qualifies per state. Basically, same as it is now. - Second stage - all state qualifers, USL and MLS are divided into four regional groups - West, South, Midwest and East corresponding to USASA breakdown. First round of regional qualifiers - state winners + PDL. Second round - 1st round winners + USL 1 and 2 teams. Third round - 2nd round winners + MLS teams. Rounds continue until you have four regional winners. Depending on the number of teams involved, the formula could be tweaked to have an additional round of state vs PDL or 1st round winners vs USL pro teams. Main thing is MLS teams enter at regional quarterfinals. - Final four format for regional winners. Semifinals + finals are played at one location over a weekend. Ideal weekend? Labor Day weekend, have semifinals on saturday, final on monday. Have a 3rd place game as well to give fans of each team two games. Could really be a fun weekend with 4 sets of traveling fans, arrange lots of get-togethers on sunday, 5v5 tournaments for fans, etc. - Work to get all of MLS, USL and every other league shut down on that weekend. If not the whole weekend, then at least on monday. Try to make it a US soccer tradition to have the US Open Cup on Labor Day monday. What do you think?
I believe that this Idea has come up before. Making it more like the NCAA Final Four Basketball Tournament, Obviously the schedule has to be spread out for WC Qualifiers and Gold Cup tournaments as well as Champions Cup and stuff. I think it could work, but it all depends on US Soccer on how it will all eventually even out. Remember both USL 1 & 2 & MLS has to make their ammount of clubs bigger to make it more exciting.
albionroad, your format looks a little like some of the web pages I've seen last year, where they tried to make the Open Cup a 128-team tournament with all MLS, USL-1 (A-L), USL-2 (PSL), PDL [about 40-ish, to fill out the bracket], and 50 USASA state winners. Those were way too much, way too big. "Main thing is MLS teams enter at regional quarterfinals." Which means the MLS teams enter in the round-of-32. That is kind of what happened last year, with two MLS teams entering in the R-32 and eight entering in the R-16. I had advocated, though, some of your ideas in the past. Having four regionals was my idea (when MLS had three teams in each region, but folding the two Florida teams threw that out of whack), and it kind of got shot down really fast on these forums. Some had prefered the single-national bracket (kind of like a "single table") but could go with the East-West breakdown of the past, but not really the four region setup. And no-one took to the idea of a "final four" at one site. I had taken this idea the step further to have the six rounds of the Cup played over three (non-consecutive) weekends: play rounds 1 and 2 in one weekend, wait three weeks or so, play the R-16 and QF in one weekend, wait three weeks or so again, play the SF and F in one weekend. But, again, people seemed to favor the current Wednesday-based schedule. The Labor Day weekend has conflicted with some international dates in the past. In future years, the September international dates are 3 and 7, 2005; 2 and 6, 2006; 8 and 12, 2007; 3 and 6, 2008.