This era begins around 1903 and ends at te outbreak of WWI interrupting British Football at the end of the 1914/15 season. One of the main features of this era was that amateur footballers were brought under the same system as professionals, so a player like Woodward, who wanted to remain amateur, had to play for a professional team. This era lacked the legendary attacking talent from the previous era, but had a very strong group of backs. Scotland and England are once again major rivals. They are once again equally matched with 4 wins for England, 4 for Scotland and 4 draws during this era. Wales and Ireland improved their quality as well during this period. Wales had a strong team from 1905 to 1909. They won the home championship in 1907 and placed second in 1905 and 1909. They beat Scotland in 4 of 5 meetings during this time period behind star performances from Billy Meredith, Grenville Morris, and Leigh Roose. Ireland had a great young team starting to peak directly before WWI. They defeated England in 1913 and 1914, winning the home championship in 1914. They had a young group of stars who had promising careers interrupted by WWI including Billy Gillespie and Bill Lacey. Probably the strongest national team of the time was England from 1907 to 1909. In these three home championships they had a 6-3-0 record and only conceded 5 goals behind the great trio of Bob Crompton, Jesse Pennington, and Sam Hardy. They peaked in 1909 when they went a perfect 3-0 with 8 goals scored and 0 conceded. The top club team of the time was Newcastle. They won three league titles and one FA Cup. They could have won more and were repeately in the top four of the league and lost a number of FA Cup finals. Their best players were versatile ball playing halfbacks like Andy Aitken and Colin Veitch. The team was known for its skillful style and excellent combination play. In England Manchester United was probably the second best team led the great center half Charlie Roberts who was joined by Manchester City exiles Billy Meredith and Sandy Turnbull. They won two league titles and an FA Cup. Everton, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Sheffield Wednesday, Blackburn, and Sunderland were all top teams as well. In Scotland Rangers and Celtic had started their monopoly on titles that would continue for most of Scottish football history, as oppose to the last era when talent was still spread throughout the league. Celtic was the more dominant team winning 6 consecutive titles at one point, led by Jimmy Quinn, Jimmy McMenemy, Alex Bennett, and Alec McNair. Position rankings Center Forward 1) Vivian Woodward (Tottenham, Chelsea, England) 2) Jimmy Quinn (Celtic, Scotland) 3) Harry Hampton (Aston Villa, England) 4) Andrew Wilson (Sheffield, Wednesday, Scotland) 5) Albert Shepherd (Bolton, Newcastle, England) 6) Willie Reid (Rangers, Scotland) 7) Bert Freeman (Everton, Burnley, England) 8) David McLean (Celtic, Preston North End, Sheffield Wednesday, Scotland) 9) George Hilsdon (Chelsea, West Ham, England) 10) Bobby Parker (Rangers, Everton) HM) George Elliot (Middlesbrough, England) HM) Arthur Brown (Sheffield United, Sunderland, England) HM) Sam Raybould (Liverpool) HM) Jack Parkinson (Liverpool, England) Overall this is a weak group compared to the previous era. I do not rate Woodward nearly as highly as his predecessors (Smith, Bloomer, Goodall) but he is still probably the best of this era. Quinn had an amazing club career but it was all in Scotland, and his record with the national team has ups and downs. The top 6 have pretty solid records at either the club of national level, but after that it was a crap shoot to try to fill out the rest of the top 10. Inside Forward 1) Bobby Walker (Hearts, Scotland) 2) Jimmy McMenemy (Celtic, Scotland) 3) George Holley (Sunderland, England) 4) Joe Bache (Aston Villa, England) 5) Sandy Turnball (Manchester United) 6) James Howie (Newcastle, Scotland) 7) Grenville Morris (Nottingham Forest, Wales) 8) James Stewart (Sheffield Wednesday, Newcastle, England) 9) Sandy Young (Everton, England) 10) Harold Fleming (Swindon Town, England) HM) Alf Common (Sheffield United, Middlesbrough, England) HM) Ronald Orr (Newcastle, Liverpool, Scotland) HM) Jimmy Croal (Falkirk, Scotland) HM) Billy Gillespie (Sheffield United, Ireland) HM) Charlie Buchan (Sunderland, England) HM) George Livingstone (Manchester City, Rangers, Manchester United, Scotland) HM) Joe Smith (Bolton, England) HM) Peter Somers (Celtic, Scotland) This position has much more depth than center forward but still lacks the greatness of the previous era. Overall I would say Walker is probably the only player who might qualify as an all time great. Lots of very good players though all the way through the honorable mentions. Wide Forward 1) Billy Meredith (Manchester City, Manchester United, Wales) 2) Jock Rutherford (Newcastle, England) 3) Jock Simpson (Falkirk, Blackburn, England) 4) Alex Bennet (Celtic, Ranger, Scotland) 5) Bobby Templeton (Aston Villa, Arsenal, Celtic, Kilmarnock, Scotland) 6) George Wall (Manchester United, England) 7) Jack Sharp (Everton, England) 8) George Wilson (Hearts, Everton, Newcastle, Scotland) 9) Arthur Bridgett (Sunderland, England) 10) Dicky Bond (Preston North End, Bradford City, England) HM) Jack Cox (Liverpool, England) HM) Harold Hardman (Everton, England) HM) Robert Evans (Sheffield United, Ireland, England) This is the first group that equals the previous eras in greatness. It has one true all time great in Meredith and a core of legendary players behind him in Rutherford, Simpson, Bennet, Templeton, and Wall, which is followed by excellent depth. Wing Half 1) Andy Aitken (Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Scotland) 2) Peter McWilliams (Newcastle, Scotland) 3) Ben Warren (Derby County, England) 4) Jimmy Hay (Celtic, Scotland) 5) Jimmy Gordon (Rangers, Scotland) 6) Tom Brittleton (Sheffield Wednesday, England) 7) Alec Leake (Aston Villa, England) 8) Evelyn Lintott (Queen;s Park Rangers, Bradford City, Leeds City, England) 9) Harry Makepeace (Everton, England) 10) Val Harris (Everton, Ireland) HM) Billy Watson (Burnley, England) HM) Henry Hampton (Bradford City, Ireland) HM) Maurice Parry (Liverpool, Wales) HM) John May (Derby County, Rangers, Morton, Scotland) HM) Harry Ruddlesdin (Sheffield Wednesday, England) HM) Sam Wolstenholme (Everton, Blackburn, England) HM) Andy Ducat (Aston Villa, England) HM) Billy Bradshaw (Blackburn, England) This is where the real strength of this era begins, with the backs. Aitken, McWilliams, and Warren were all legendary players of their time. Center Half 1) Charlie Thomson (Hearts, Sunderland, Scotland) 2) Alex Raisbeck (Liverpool, Park Thistle, Scotland) 3) Colin Veitch (Newcastle, England) 4) Charlie Roberts (Manchester United, England) 5) Billy Wedlock (Bristol City, England) 6) Wilf Low (Aberdeen, Newcastle, Scotland) 7) Joe McCall (Preston North End, England) 8) Bernard Wilkinson (Sheffield United, England) 9) James Stark (Rangers, Scotland) 10) Tom Booth (Blackburn, Everton, England) HM) Willie Loney (Celtic, Scotland) Another great group. Going into this exercise I was sure I would rank Raisbeck and #1 for this era. My opinion of him is not any less now, but Thomson really impressed me. I might rate him as the best player of the era regardless of position. He had a great club career in Scotland, a great club career in England, and a fantastic international career. He was the protagonist of Scotland's two mast emphatic victories over England during the era. Raisbeck had a fantastic career for Liverpool and Scotland, where he made a huge impact in both this era and the previous one. Veitch was one of Newcastle's greatest players and good career with the England national team. Roberts had possibly the best club career of anyone on the list, but was held out of the national team by Wedlock, who amassed 26 caps and had a good club career for Bristol City who consistently punched above their weight in the English league. Fullback 1) Bob Crompton (Blackburn, England) 2) Jesse Pennington (West Brom, England) 3) Alex McNair (Celtic, Scotland) 4) Herbert Burgess (Manchester City, Manchester United, England) 5) Bill McCracken (Newcastle, Ireland) 6) Jack Carr (Newcastle, England) 7) Jimmy Watson (Sunderland, Scotland) 8) Andy McCombie (Sunderland, Newcastle, Scotland) 9) Billy Dunlop (Liverpool, Scotland) 10) Donald McLeod (Celtic, Scotland) HM) Jimmy Sharp (Arsenal, Rangers, Scotland) HM) Jock Walker (Rangers, Swindon Town, Middlesbrough, Scotland) HM) Thomas Jackson (St Mirren, Scotland) Another very strong group. Goalkeeper 1) San Hardy (Liverpool, Aston Villa, England) 2) Leigh Roose (Stoke City, Everton, Sunderland, Wales) 3) Harry Rennie (Hibernian, Scotland) 4) Jimmy Brownlie (Third Lanark, Scotland) 5) James Lawrence (Newcastle, Scotland) 6) Billy Scott (Ireland, Everton) 7) Tim Williamson (Middlesbrough, England) 8) Peter McBride (Preston North End, Scotland) 9) Tom Baddeley (Wolves, England) 10) John Lyall (Sheffield Wednesday, Scotland) HM) Jimmy Ashcroft (Arsenal, Blackburn, England) HM) Henry Linarce (Nottingham Forest, England) Two all time greats at the top of the list and good quality all the way through #6.
A resume of the players chosen by nation in the Third Era: ------ ENG - SCO - WAL - IRE- TOTAL CFs --- 5 ----- 5 ------ - ------ - ----- 10 IFs ---- 5 ----- 4 ------ 1 ----- * ----- 10 WGs -- 6 ----- 3 ------ 1 ----- * ----- 10 WHs -- 5 ----- 4 ------ * ----- 1* ---- 10 CHs --- 6 ----- 4 ------ - ------ - ----- 10 FBs --- 4 ----- 5 ------ - ------ 1 ----- 10 GKs --- 3 ---- 5 ------ 1 ------ 1 ----- 10 Also, 3 irishmen and 1 welshman as honorable mentions. Another interesting thing is the presence of some players that took part of the England Amateurs matches (2 in the Top-10 and 1 as HM).
Something of interest here is that this is the first era in which players from outside the British Isles would have a credible chance of inclusion. Did you think about picking the likes of Middelboe or Schlosser?
I have thought about it, and I think they should probably be included but strictly as honorable mention. Would be to hard to actually rank them, although it would be tempting with some of the center forwards on the continent or south america as it is a weak position in Britain.
What about to add some Amateurs? Kenneth Hunt, the gold medalist winghalf, got 16 amateur caps and 2 full caps. He also scored one goal in the Wolverhampton victory at the FA Cup, maybe the most important tournament at that time, including professional and amateur clubs from UK. Herbert Smith, the gold medalist fullback, got 13 amateur caps and 4 full caps (all of them before his amateur caps). So, he should have been one of the top amateurs at that time. Bob Hawkes, another winghalf medalist, got 15 amateur and 5 full caps, a very good achievement for an amateur player. He had numerous offers to join professional clubs but declined them.
Some stars as Schlosser and Piendibene can be named in the next era, I guess. The remaining big non-british name is Nils Middelboe, who could make the list considering his status at NT level, yet his amateur status prevented to achieved a more regular career in football. The mid to bottom part in the Half list could be plausible, imo. The other "non-british" stars of the era could be placed one level behind the three players mentioned above, that's mean a group that can get a Honorable Mention at most, imo. Among South Americans, the big names could be: - For Argentina as the big regional gun, the most prominent players were the great captain Jorge Gibson Brown (FB) and Max Susan (CF & IF), capped 23 times. - For Uruguay, the second NT, could be mentioned Juan Pena (RW & IR) and John Harley (CH), also the Cespedes brothers, but died at a young age. - For Brazil, the lead figure was Charles Miller (IF & CF). I think, Friedenreich is part of the next era more than this.
"The top club team of the time was Newcastle. They won three league titles and one FA Cup...Their best players were versatile ball playing halfbacks like Andy Aitken and Colin Veitch." Great info Tom, I absolutely love these threads! I just want to point out that Aitken should only be credited with one league title as he played for Middlesbrough beginning with the 1906-07 season.