You say blah blah blah but we're going to Champions League, man. Someone please find that GIF and post it, one of my all-time favorites.
and ranieri was a "dinosaur" tactician for almost a decade hopping from job to job before the magic season at leicester. funny how recency works. so to play devil's advocate, what happens if stielke called up PJY and we still ended up drawing. because that can easily happen as evident in the previous WCQ campaigns. and stielke sticks with PJY through 2017. then 2018 arrives and you're at risk of only having a 33yo striker, without giving much experience to other younger guys who show something. is it possible the perspective of the fans, who eagerly await and anticipate each non-friendly international match, and the perspective of stielke, who is looking forward to the finale of his career: 2018 russia, don't align and cause self-damaging friction to the KNT? at least acknowledge the thanklessness of the position. stielke will hardly ever please the majority of KNT fans, whether with fair criticism involving selection, formation, substitutions; or with inevitable unfair criticism involving JHS's poor passes or player conditioning. at least acknowledge it's easier to blame the uppity looking singular "leader" of the team over the 8-10 individual players who make mistakes on the field and play more of a direct role in a match than stielke. while i have issues with stielke, i can't say i'm too disappointed given i didn't even know the guy existed beforehand. it's a KFA hire, and their hiring record is poor. so shouldn't that be where the baseline is? instead we expect this guy to answer our fundamental issues and placate all our wants. he's getting results, and that alone is a step up from the ABOMINATION of 2014 WCQ. i wouldn't be upset if we let him go in 2016, but if he's still the manager in 2017, he absolutely must ride out the contract and endure all the shit that will inevitably flow to him. but gauging sentiment this early in qualifiers, we're gonna have a similar situation as 2014, scrambling for a last minute manager. time. flat. circle.
Is he really responsible for the results, or is it that the NT was a total trainwreck before him? My opinion is that we're good enough where these "results" Stielike has been getting should be par for the course at best. Even in games against tough Asian teams like Iran where we struggle, it's clear to me that our players are just better. Along with Japan, we have the best and most technical players in Asia. In my opinion, Stielike isn't doing anything special. The leadup to the 2014 WC isn't a fair comparison because it was an unusually severe political cluster******** and a highly publicized period in Korean football where the NT was facing huge pressure from the public. CKH sabotaged himself because he's a passive aggressive coward and HMB was never ready for the job. Not a good environment for a bunch of young players. You say that "it's easier to blame the uppity looking singular "leader" of the team over the 8-10 individual players who make mistakes on the field and play more of a direct role in a match than stielke." But you also say that "he's getting results, and that alone is a step up from the ABOMINATION of 2014 WCQ." I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense, because those two statements aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. But where do we draw the line on Stielike's supposed influence on the team's recent "results"? Given the fact that Stielike has not been impressive in terms of picking players, tactical flexibility, substitutions, etc., it's really difficult to pinpoint what exactly that he's been doing right. Stielike hasn't been a disaster so far, but I strongly believe that the KNT deserves a manager who is both more talented and more experienced. He looks better than he is because the situation had been so unusually bad before him. He's a C- manager at best, and he doesn't have what it takes to bring this team to the next level. Am I asking for too much? Maybe, but it's only natural to be dissatisfied with a subpar manager who isn't up to our (relatively lower) standards. That's really all there is to it to me.
we'll get to russia, guys and we will keep uli trust me. our team is good we'll do better than the last wc under hong
I thought he was Magath the Crusher. His appearance is similar to Ranieri in that cartoon. Ranieri Magath
http://www.sedaily.com/NewsView/1L1C6FXB3H Even Lee Jaesung thinks that SHITLIKE sucks...if i understand it correctly.
What makes you think that the current team and Shitlike will do better than Hong? I am not so convinced. 1. Our players are identical to the Hongzhou 2014 team. 2. Shitlike's CV is about as impressive as Hongzhou in 2014. Pretty much no experience. 3. Shitlike's tactics (4-2-3-1 on defense and 4-1-4-1 on offense) is identical to Hongzhou. With those three facts in mind, what is Shitlike's key differentiator? That he's white?
Maybe S. Korea can naturalize Rossettini, so the defense will be less shaky With Rossettini S. Korea have a chanche to get out of the group stages in Russia Oh, i forgot to mention, why not Sportiello as new GK?
what does deserve have anything to do with reality. of course we all think we deserve better, but the reality is korea will never get a B+ or better manager unless KFA pays big money or some other giant string attached. we're not an attractive destination for a B+ manager because of how asia is viewed relative to the world. so why do we have these bloated expectations just because a few of our players play in top leagues. and they're not doing well there now, so why do we expect them to look collectively cohesive wearing our colors? maybe because we don't want to admit they're not as good as we rate them to be, and it's easier to judge the singular foreign guy. let's be honest with ourselves. maybe if our players get in form and can earn starts at their clubs, stielke's vision would look better too. i understand the frustration with selections and i share it. i haven't seen enough k-league to vouch for jumen (brilliant nickname btw) and KBK, but i'm all for rotating selections based on form, this early in the WCQ campaign. however, we've been let down by in-form k-league players before many times. it's not a given that results would have been different had they been selected. it's the convenient argument to make as a fan, but it's a faulty one. KSY played like crap and he barely looks interested anymore. SHM played like crap and couldn't dribble past many defenders. hasn't been solid for club in years. LCY's dynamic play is gone and hasn't been in-form in years. this is the reality for our key players yet when they wear our colors and don't play well, it's mostly the manager's fault? KNT isn't good enough where you can guarantee a win against ME sides like you all expect. i think you guys correlate unrelated predispositions about their country with their footballing and expect them to be terrible but they are catching up. there's nothing wrong with that.
I think all the hand wringing about the manager is misguided. We just don't have the quality players. Period. We need better youth development, and if Stielike can make that happen, he would have done more than Hiddink has done.
It would have been wonderful if Giovanni Trapattoni managed Korea at some point, with Ahn Jung Hwan as assistant lol
the thing is, as many posters pointed out before, it just doesn't seem plausible that a senior NT head coach can make meaningful impact (hopefully positive one) on youth development on a 4-year tenure. EDIT: on other point, I wonder how KNT would have shaped up as of now had Bert Van Marwijik been KNT coach. Many here on BSK linked Marwijik's desire to be based in Europe as signs of lacking commitment. I personally don't think that was such an outrageous idea (assuming he was motivated, and had an assistant working in Korea). After all, Stielike's attendance of domestic football scenes don't seem to make such an impact.
Hey Ahn, how do you say (see wikipedia) "non dire gatto se non c'è l'hai nel sacco" in korean? Help me, you STRUNZ. Ahn: 뭐라고? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/non_dire_gatto_se_non_ce_l'hai_nel_sacco
i'm not convinced he would've produced better results while costing a lot more, not that it's my money. most international managers are older and you can't blame them for desiring to be closer to their home. geography itself, as there aren't (any?) B+ asian managers, limits the likelihood korea gets a quality manager. whatever quality even means. every disagreeable decision van marwijk would've made would be attributed to his clause to be based in europe. if the draw against syria happened with him in charge, he'd probably be fired from the pissed fans already. i'm starting to think one of stielke's key attributes in leeyongsoo's perspective was his resoluteness. stielke doesn't seem like he'd easily cower to negativity and appears strong-willed, for better or worse.
Hiddink had also proposed to the KFA in 2005 with the idea of being based in Europe whilst arriving only on match days and leaving his coaches in charge during his absence. The only difference between Hiddink and Van Marwijk is that Hiddink was only planning on juggling both Club and Country until the season was over (UCL+League Title), whilst Van Marwijk never intended on setting foot outside from his home boundaries as he would often commute from the Netherlands to Germany during his tenure with Borussia Dortmund and HSV Hamburg. In the end, Australia took the gamble with Hiddink and landed their first ever Round of 16 at the World Cup in 2006, as well as earning their World Cup birth in a glorious fashion by beating Uruguay in the playoffs. Speaking of Van Marwijk and the KNT, it's unclear as to how we would've fared under his guidance had the negotiations been a successful one, and a disappointing performance would've obviously resulted in fans pinning the blame on his inability to stay in the country as wetcrispy mentioned. And whilst Van Marwijk have been doing fine with Saudia Arabia leading up to the WCQs, it's the WCQs where I wanted to see how he would fare the most with an AFC team, and at the moment their performances against Thailand and Iraq were rather mediocre with having barely walked away on PKs(A controversial one as well). The least I can give Van Marwijk is that he has the knowledge and experience over Stielike.
Aside from charity events and visits to local youth teams and programs, it's not really doing much and I don't see it as improving the Youth System especially with the given time frame of 4 years. I also don't believe it was a good idea for Lee Yong-soo to give the national team manager the responsibility of help improving the Youth System as well given the fact that the national team job is a big task in itself, and if he truly wanted someone to help improve the Youth System like he was aiming for, then perhaps he should've left that job to Stielike and have someone else manage the national team instead. Stielike has too much on his shoulders for him to even handle all at once.
But that's not quite what I'm saying - I'm not expecting some amazing manager to come to Korea. I'm just saying that Stielike is subpar even for us. AFAIK he's had no success in his managerial career and wasn't doing well in the ME. Say what you want about the KNT but Stielike's profile as a manager was nowhere near the KNT's profile as an international side. Wait, of course it's not a given, but no one's claiming that the results would have been different 100%. People are unhappy because Stielike didn't give in-form players a chance despite having room left on the squad. It's frankly a bit much to say that Stielike gets a pass for logically questionable choices just because we have no way of knowing for sure what would have happened. We've had plenty of in-form K-league players make big contributions during qualifications. You can't justify leaving them out because some predecessors of theirs didn't do so well in the past. That doesn't make sense to me. Come on now, I never said that I believe that we are guaranteed a win. I said that the reality is that we're still better than all but one team in Asia and that Stielike has benefited from that. That's a strawman argument.
I find it quite funny and amazing at the same time on how we even managed to bring in Hiddink. You can say that we had the 2002 FIFA World Cup as a backing, but we were also in a desperate situation on finding and bringing in a new manager as Lee Yong-soo had to quickly bring up a list of potential candidates and go into negotiation process, those of whom were: 1. Aimé Jacquet 2. Guus Hiddink 3. Jo Bonfrere 4. Miroslav Blažević. Ever since then, our final choices were rather meh: Here's the list of Technical Directors + Managerial Candidates/Appointed Managers: Lee Yong-Soo (November 2000 - July 2002): Appointed Guus Hiddink (Netherlands) 2001 - 2002. 2002 Managerial candidates: 1. Aimé Jacquet (France) 2. Guus Hiddink (Netherlands) 3. Miroslav "Ćiro" Blažević (Croatia) 4. Jo Bonfrere (Netherlands) Kim Jin-Kook (July 2002 - May 2004): Appointed: Humberto Coelho(Portugal) 2003 - 2004. 2003 Managerial candidates: Bruno Metsu (France), Humberto Coelho (Portugal), Luiz Felipe Scolari (Brazil), Aimé Jacquet (France), Alberto Zaccheroni (Italy) Roger Lemerre (France). Lee Hoi-Taek (May 2004 - November 2005): Appointed Jo Bonfrere (Netherlands).2004 - 2005. 2004 Managerial candidates: 1. Jo Bonfrere (Netherlands) 2. Dick Advocaat (Netherlands). Other candidates: Bruno Metsu (France), Luiz Felipe Scolari (Brazil), Mick McCarthy (Republic of Ireland), Şenol Güneş (Turkey). Lee Young-Moo (November 2005 - July 2007): Appointed Dick Advocaat (Netherlands) 2005 - 2006, Pim Verbeek (Netherlands) 2006 - 2007. 2005 Managerial candidates: Dick Advocaat. 2006 Managerial candidates: Pim Verbeek. Lee Hoi-Taek (July 2007 - November 2010): Appointed Huh Jung-Moo (South Korea) 2007 - 2010. 2007 Managerial candidates: 1. Gérard Houllier (France) 2. Mick McCarthy (Republic of Ireland). Hwangbo Kwan (November 2919 - July 2014): Appointed Cho Kwang-Rae (South Korea) 2010 - 2-11, Choi Kang-Hee (South Korea) 2011 - 2013, Hong Myung-Bo (South Korea) 2013 - 2014. 2010 Managerial candidates: Jung Hae-Sung, Kim Ho-Gon, Kim Hak-Bum, Cho Kwang-Rae (South Korea). 2011 Managerial candidates: Luiz Felipe Scolari (Brazil), Hwang Sun-Hong, Hong Myung-Bo, Kim Ho-Gon, Choi Kang-Hee (South Korea). 2013 Managerial candidates: Bert van Marwijk (Netherlands), Şenol Güneş (Turkey), Kim Ho-Gon, Hong Myung-Bo (South Korea). Lee Yong-Soo (July 2014 - Ongoing): Appointed Uli Stielike (Germany) 2014 - Present. 2014 Managerial candidates: 1. Bert van Marwijk (Netherlands) 2. Radomir Antić? 3. ??? (All negotiation processes were scrapped after Van Marwijk rejected the offer.) - Uli Stielike and Ciro Ferrara (Confirmed candidates that arrived in London).