NSR Netherlands: Current events (in the world).

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Nov 14, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Bad article, even pretty horrible, but more important, what is your personal claim accompanying this article? Be specific.
     
  2. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Islam is part of Europe now, or would you contest that?
     
  3. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Wrong.

    1. Wrong characterization of dynamic. It is a message board and discussing is kind of the point here. Lol. Maybe you project your own intention on me when posting here? :D
    2. My point still stands.

    So yeah, this sentence is crap.:thumbsup:
     
  4. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    Haha. Same thing. Where is your personal claim? You just dump an article in this thread and I do not see the claim. Also here, be specific. Become visible so I can see where you stand.
     
  5. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Exactly, he did not get my post right again.

    :D Oh was that the point of my post FSF?
     
  6. My question was if drb300 claim that Mo is a pedo is true without a doubt, with the article (there are other sources too with scolars from US and UK universities telling the same, but if I post them I will be accused of littering again) explanation at hand. His attack is ment as a damage to the credibility of the man by portraying him as a pedo. When such an attack is made (and it is used to portray all Muslims as pedo's), it must be at least be accurate. But I get that's not important to you. It's an attack on something you despise, so it doesnot have to be true. Okay. Got it.
     
  7. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No, not really. There is always conflict in religion. That is why there are so many denominations in big religions like Christianity and even Islam. Of course in modern day society where this history is ridiculed, apologists will try to apply some revisionism. The article is pretty stupid as it must point out why Sahih al-Bukhari now all of the sudden can not be trusted. It does not do that properly. It is cherry picking.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Besides this low age comes back in 2 other haddiths outside of Bukhari.


    So no. I weigh the evidences and dismiss the article as modern apologetics. It is widely accepted among Muslims themselves that Aisha was 9 when marriage was consumed. Besides this is me being generous. What about this?



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    :rolleyes:

    And not some crap article from some western apologist, but a Mufti.


    What is you definition of morality?

    Mine works with human well being and from that point on I can start posting one scientific report after the other:

    1. "Patterns of childhood adverse events are associated with clinical characteristics of bipolar disorder"
    2. "Victimization, posttraumatic stress disorder symptomatology, and later nonsuicidal self-harm in a birth cohort."
    3. "Extending models of deliberate self-harm and suicide attempts to substance users: Exploring the roles of childhood abuse, posttraumatic stress, and difficulties controlling impulsive behavior when distressed."
    4. "Read-react-respond: An integrative model for understanding sexual revictimization."
    5. "A study of deliberate self-harm and its repetition among patients presenting to an emergency department."
    6. "Childhood sexual abuse and its impact on woman's health."
    7. "Posttraumatic stress symptoms and trajectories in child sexual abuse victims: An analysis of sex differences using the National Survey of Child and Adolescent Well-Being."
    8. Saunders, Benjamin E., Kilpatrick, Dean G., Hanson, Rochelle F., Resnick, Heidi S., and Walker, Michael E. 1999 work titled Prevalence, Case Characteristics, and Long-Term Psychological Correlates of Child Rape among Women: A National Survey

    Then there are these:


    A post I saw:

    "All sexual contact, even between adults, is a product of a type of manipulation. Perhaps motivation is a better word, but manipulation will also do. You can be manipulated tacitly by someone's good looks, or charm, or wealth. Manipulating a child is different to manipulating an adult. Any responsible adult must be aware that the child he/she is courting is not necessarily autonomous. By which I mean, a child's ability to act as a rational agent is inherently bewitched by their youth. Even if you find yourself in a situation whereby you and the child have both explicitly agreed to consensual sex absent any active manipulation from either parties, you as the adult must recognize that the child's consent is not as legitimate as your own because their infancy means they are less able to offer such legitimate consent."

    You cannot give informed consent as a child. A child does not have the capability of giving consent free of coercion to someone in a position above them or to someone much older. So it is sexual abuse, sexual assault and rape to children.

    But there is more:

    "Justified as an accepted norm with social and financial benefits, child marriage has little or no benefit for the young girls themselves, who are more vulnerable to domestic violence, more likely to be uneducated, at greater risk of contracting HIV/AIDS, and more likely to bear children before they are physically ready.Indeed, for some 70,000 young brides who die every year as a result of pregnancy or childbirth complications, early marriage is a death sentence.Studies show that girls who give birth before the age of 15 are five times more likely to die in childbirth than women in their twenties.Furthermore, the infants of child mothers are also at greater risk. If a mother is under the age of 18, her baby’s chance of dying in its first year of life is 60 per cent greater than that of an infant born to a mother older than 19"

    "...Child marriage often results in separation from family and friends and lack of freedom to participate in community activities, which can all have major consequences on girls’ mental and physical well-being. Where prevalent, child marriage functions as a social norm. Marrying girls under 18 years old is rooted in gender discrimination, encouraging premature and continuous child bearing and giving preference to boys’ education. Child marriage is also a strategy for economic survival as families marry off their daughters at an early age to reduce their economic burden."

    http://www.unicef.org/protection/57929_58008.html

    http://www.unicef.org/sowc09/docs/SOWC09-CountryExample-Mali.pdf

    "Child brides are often disempowered, dependent on their husbands and deprived of their fundamental rights to health, education and safety. Neither physically nor emotionally ready to become wives and mothers, child brides are at greater risk of experiencing dangerous complications in pregnancy and childbirth, becoming infected with HIV/AIDS and suffering domestic violence. With little access to education and economic opportunities, they and their families are more likely to live in poverty."

    "Nations also feel the impact: a system that undervalues the contribution of young women limits its own possibilities. In this way, child marriage drains countries of the innovation and potential that would enable them to thrive."

    http://www.girlsnotbrides.org/what-is-the-impact/

    "In Islamic nations, many countries do not allow child marriage of girls under their civil code of laws. But, the state recognized Sharia religious laws and courts in all these nations have the power to override the civil code, and often do. UNICEF reports that the top five nations in the world with highest observed child marriage rates — Niger (75%), Chad (72%), Mali (71%), Bangladesh (64%), Guinea(63%) — are Islamic majority countries.[12]""The age at which India's Muslim girls can legally marry, according to this Muslim Personal Law,is 9, and can be lower if her guardian (wali) decides she is sexually mature.[87][88] Over the last 25 years, All India Muslim Personal Law Board and other Muslim civil organizations have actively opposed India-wide laws and enforcement action against child marriages; they have argued that Indian Muslim families have a religious right to marry a girl aged 15 or even 12."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage[/QUOTE]
     
  8. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #1333 DRB300, Aug 8, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
    :D You even get the basics wrong again.

    This was my post earlier to Curbo setting the record straight on the pedo thing:

    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...ts-in-the-world.2026526/page-52#post-34421663

    This was a post from Laurent who did understand the point of my post:

    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...ts-in-the-world.2026526/page-53#post-34421865

    So yeah, you are wrong ...... again.

    Now, I want to see claims from YOU. I see you have adjusted your whole posting style for me (lol), so you can attack my positions and leave no claims behind yourself. How long did you think that would work out :D

    Post your claims with the articles you posted. I want to exactly see where you stand on the issues.
     
  9. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  10. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #1335 DRB300, Aug 8, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
    Oh and since it has sometimes been claimed that we only pay attention to attacks in the west and on western people, here you go:

    http://nos.nl/artikel/2124049-wie-pleegde-de-aanslag-in-pakistan.html

    Top news on NOS website.
     
  11. #1336 feyenoordsoccerfan, Aug 8, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
    Well, from the start about this religion subject, I have made clear that I think you post onesided about it to make your point and I post the things you leave out as a supplement to the readers.(Edit: that doesnot necesarily mean I that I disagree with the posted info from you) It is then up to the readers to decide how they weigh it. Contrarary to you I have no personal claims, as I have only intellectual interest in matters of religion as a cultural phenomenon with human historic characteristics embedded and political/socio-economic consequences. I have no need to convert people pro or against, because that is irrelevant to me. What matters to me is that people get a picture that shows them that there is diversity within that community and only showing the opinions that suite your purpose of villifying is unbalanced.

    So my post about Jesus was ment as a supplement for the opinion forming, as you claimed the Quran was all about Mo, and I give the reader the proof you were lying.
    It does however raise the question ( there is my intellectual interest) how it is that in the Muslim world it is all about Mo, and I stumble upon from time to time on that question.

    You are on a mission and try to lure me into that either as a proponent or as an opponent. I am not interested, as I'm interested in complete facts for my intellectual development and not in the business of declaring somethong good or evil. That's your business.
    As I posted that I have skipped out of personal circumstances about a hundred alerts and I'm not going to read them, unless it is necesary. So my reaction is at the posts from the ones I mentioned and not from the ones before. I remain blissfully unaware of them.
     
  12. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:


    ^

    And I never do that, but this is the most laughable post I have read in a long time. What a piece of crap to excuse yourself from taking any position and continuing to post no claims. You have totally adjusted your whole posting style for 1 person and 1 person alone: ME. I am that important to you and stop denying it.You know that when you post even 1 claim you are in trouble as now I can attack you, so you have given up on that. Every time you come with these excuses as not to take any position in a matter. You come in with little snide remarks, even able to screw those up and no claims. lol.

    Post your claims now.
     
  13. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Post the exact quote right now or apologize. Be quick.
     
  14. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Nope. You don't get it. Nothing in any of those books can be proven as undeniably true. It's what people believe to be true that matters.
     
    Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  15. No, you're dodging my question. DRB300 uses quotes from sources to prove Mo is a pedo. Other sources have a different analysis of it. The question at hand isnot about what people believe ( as there is difference of opinion in the Muslim world about it there are obviously people that believe otherwise, but that's not the issue of my question),
    but is what DRB stated very clearly with quotes to prove his point about the pedo matter undeniably true or is there room for doubt about his point of view, given other sources. In other words: did DRB give a true picture of this matter or did he only show what was suitable to him.
    The question is the integreaty of his posting on this subject, not what people believe.
     
  16. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^ Can you explain to the person that is too afraid to post any claims here anymore due to me, that he is wrong for the millionth time. That it was Curbo who called him a pedo and that in fact I was the one setting the record straight:

    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...ts-in-the-world.2026526/page-52#post-34421663

    The dude has stopped computing words.
     
  17. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Anyone watching the US/Nederlands in women's volleyball? Upset maybe coming as the Dutch are leading 2-1 right now; playing game 4.
     
    DRB300 repped this.
  18. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You accuse people of dodging :laugh::laugh::laugh:

    I post my opinion. You don't even do that and have some kind of idiotic standard for me in mind that you do not apply to anybody and certainly not yourself. By that standard you then want to talk about integrity? You fail that test on this very page multiple times against a lower standard. You do not even got you basics rights (again).

    Apart from that, I am the most important person on this forum for you. By far. Maybe the only person. That has been established now and it makes you look like a creep. An old guy with an obsession for a young man. :ROFLMAO:

    [​IMG]


    Stop dreaming about me.
     
  19. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I will tune in now. Thanks for the tip.
     
  20. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Plak lost it for us. What a horrible sub. That USA defense though......:thumbsup:
     
  21. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    What have I to do with DRB? Why am I supposed to judge his integrity. But if you insist; I don't see him lying. If you do, please demonstrate.

    That you claim that DRB wants to unfairly portray Mo as a pedo in order to incriminate every muslim as being a pedo makes me question your integrity though. That's quite a leap in logic.
     
    DRB300 repped this.
  22. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think when your captain went out with an ankle sprain that deflated the team. Still a wonderful match to watch.
     
  23. Dutch Treat

    Dutch Treat Member

    May 6, 2005
    Amsterdam|Alphen a/d Rijn
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Just came back from watching the game at a friends home. Great and intense game.
     
  24. Dutch Treat

    Dutch Treat Member

    May 6, 2005
    Amsterdam|Alphen a/d Rijn
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Plak is a huge prospect though. Her youth got the better of her today.
     
  25. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    #1350 Laurent75, Aug 8, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
    None of these things are reaching to the point. Nobody has been denying the fact that sex with children is bad, the point is to know what is a child and what isn't a child from a mental and physical perspective.And it varies with time and environnement.

    Put your kid in a locked room with a lot of science books and you'll have a good chance to developp a precocious individual, don't you think so ? He will reach a level of knowledge a maturity that most of the kids don't have now. Look at the aristocratic circles in the middle ages, kids were studying scolatic philosophy etc. and some came up with scientific inventions at a very young age. There's no specific time for a person to be mature or become an adult, that's all about environnement.

    And the same goes about the physical aspect. Nutrition plays a major role in the puberty process, people reach puberty younger now. The age of consent in the western world varies between 14 and 17 if I'm not mistaken but studies have shown that a majority of girls bodies are ready as young as 11-12 :

    http://www.livescience.com/33170-youngest-age-give-birth-pregnancy.html

    What's the sense to put the age of consent so late in Europe ? It's not even synchronized with the body developpement and ability to have sexual relations. It's just like saying "Ok your brain is developped enough to understand equations but since you're just a kid, we're gonna sticked to multiplication tables until you reach 14".

    Now what about Aisha ? Did anybody know about her mental state or her physical condition ? What if she was mentally more mature at the age of 9 than some girls are at the age of 15 nowadays and therefore not really a child ? Who knows ? How is this bad from a moral point of view if that was the case ?

    The question of consent age is timeless, there will be never be a truth, it will always depends on individuals and environnement. Absolutly stupid to attack Islam and Muhammad on this point.
     

Share This Page