PBP: MLS 2016 Week 8 Running PBP Thread [Multiple R]

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Macsen, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    purple shaded glasses have fingerprints all over them.
     
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  2. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC Still Lazy After All These Years

    FC Vaduz / Philadelphia Union
    Jan 7, 2010
    Andalusia, PA
    Club:
    FC Vaduz
    Actually, yeah. See, if the AR raises the flag for an offside, Larin isn't anywhere near the box to get chopped down because the play ends there. And the reason why those lines are cut into the field like that is to assist the AR to determine offside, and, based on that photo, Larin is ahead of Ouimette.
     
    Gamecock14 and KCbus repped this.
  3. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A player's hand isn't considered for offside.

    Only parts of the body that can legally play the ball are considered in the equation.
     
    JasonMa, cleansheetbsc, Len and 2 others repped this.
  4. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's the moment the keeper is striking the ball -- that play is offside. No question.

    Makes the hand-wringing lose a lot of its luster.

    Now, it doesn't change the fact that they butchered the non-red once play was allowed to continue. But the sense of injustice certainly has to be tempered by the fact that the play should have been dead anyway.
     
  5. Haig

    Haig Member+

    May 14, 2000
    METROSTARS
    Club:
    --other--
    Just so you know, in the Laws of the Game Law 11 definitions, FIFA explicitly states:

    "The arms are not included in this definition"

    That includes the hand. The position of Ouimette's hand has nothing to do with offside.

    Check page 110 of the 2015-16 LOTG: http://fifa.com/mm/Document/Footbal...ng/02/36/01/11/LawsofthegamewebEN_Neutral.pdf

    I think the IFAB made this very clear about 10-15 years ago.
     
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  6. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And even if the arms were considered... "inches from being onside" doesn't make him onside.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  7. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. Entirely correct. I feel a lot better about this game. Much like Orlando's LAST game, it does appear that 2 wrongs have again made a right.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  8. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 19, 2000
    Bombay Beach, CA
    For the refs, though, those are two failures--blown offside call, blown DOGSO call.

    Just like last week with Orlando, both the missed call and the made call were travesties.

    I was vocally against replay last year when it first came up, but if the past two weeks are the non-replay norm in MLS, I give up--replay til the cows come home.

    "Evening things out" is failing twice.
     
  9. PTFC in KCMO

    PTFC in KCMO Member+

    Aug 12, 2012
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Larin is offside, and as of this moment I officially hate Orlando fans more than Sounder fans.
     
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  10. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Unfortunately, we have no video evidence of anything. The ref was anything but consistent in the game. But players should understand such things by now.
     
  11. PTFC in KCMO

    PTFC in KCMO Member+

    Aug 12, 2012
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Red cards.

    Goals.

    That is all that should be reviewed. Those have natural stoppages. you can review them in 20 seconds. Done.

    Everything else, well, we will just have to live with.
     
    Boloni86 repped this.
  12. LimeTree

    LimeTree Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    You just know this has "commercial break" written all over it. Catching up on all the drama via MLS Live condensed is super convenient, but soccer-twitter righteous indignation is only fun in real-time. :D
     
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  13. PTFC in KCMO

    PTFC in KCMO Member+

    Aug 12, 2012
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    My hope is that between a goal celebration or everyone freaking out over a red card, they will have it reviewed, done and dusted, before the director can figure out that he could have taken a commercial break.

    No, that is what the water breaks are for.
     
    Boloni86 repped this.
  14. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC Still Lazy After All These Years

    FC Vaduz / Philadelphia Union
    Jan 7, 2010
    Andalusia, PA
    Club:
    FC Vaduz
    Red cards shouldn't be reviewed because they can be subject to referee interpretation and then you're pitting a referee on the field against a referee looking on a monitor.

    Personally, after watching how replay has been used in baseball and hockey, I don't want replay for anything other than goal line technology. Things that you think should take 20 seconds to review wind up taking 3 and a half minutes because the focus solely becomes on getting it right, and sometimes getting it right takes an incredibly long time.
     
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  15. PTFC in KCMO

    PTFC in KCMO Member+

    Aug 12, 2012
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    I agree with all of those. Personally, I think you should have a 30 second limit on all replays. If you can't get it right on the first two or three looks, then the play is too close and even if it is wrong, you can understand the ref getting it wrong in real time.

    I mean, for you to reverse a red card in 30 seconds, the circumstances HAVE to be obvious. In that case, the referee deserves to have his authority usurped.
     
  16. JoeCelt

    JoeCelt Member+

    Jul 7, 2012
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    All GOALS & highlights from Week 8 in MLS
     
  17. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Generally agreed, though goals shouldn't really be reviewed, per se. The Hawkeye system in the Premier League works fabulously, and there's no benefit (besides cost) to having replay instead of that.

    With red card reviews though, would you want a fifth official specifically for that, or would you want the refs on the field reviewing?
     
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  18. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't. As before it is not representative of the wider fan base.
     
  19. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Has to be a permanent referee in video booth with a head set communicating to refs on field. Waiting for a ref to walk off the field into a booth is absurd.

    The biggest area where this can help is retroactive red cards. Even if field refs miss it and play continues, it's worth disrupting play and bringing it back 20-30 seconds later. Having a player get away with murder is probably the biggest deficiency we have now. In fact you could make a case that the video booth ref should be the only one deciding red cards, that way there's no interpretation conflict. Field ref blows whistle, play stops anyways giving the video reviewer a chance to review if there's any doubt. Obviously most fouls won't be reviewed, so it shouldn't disrupt play too much.

    People think this slows the game down, but if you use it strategically it only needs to be used a handful of times per game. And if you start getting these calls right 99% of the time, it'll help get rid of all the ref crowding and sideline hysterics. In the end, if employed correctly it can even help move the game along.

    Eventually the biggest advance in refereeing is when they develop some sort of offsides recognition software. That would also take care of all out of bounds calls, making the sideline ref's job obsolete. It's not a matter of if, but when ... Offsides is the hardest call in soccer and not really open to human interpretation. It either is or it isn't. The game will be so much better when this stuff gets cleaned up.
     
  20. Len

    Len Member+

    Club: Dallas Tornado
    Jan 18, 1999
    Everywhere and Nowhere.....I'm the wind, baby.
    I guess I never really thought about it. Interesting.

    Oh...... I think I was out that day.
     
  21. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It's why replay is only useful in yes/no decisions where interpretation in not truly needed. It's why out/safe and homerun/foul ball works in Baseball. It's why shot leave hand before red light works in basketball. It's why hawkeye in/out works in tennis, and why goalline tech in soccer works. It is binary. A yes/no. No real need for interpretation.

    The NFL has had problems with the catch rule because it depends on interpretation. Especially with "making a football move." It lead to controversy on top of an already controversial play. I wish MLS would avoid it and stick to binary decisions. Which is basically goal/no goal and in/out.
     
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  22. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    video evidence? How about a quote from Brad Evans:

    Brad, the referee has no requirement that he talk to you.
     
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  23. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    I gave up with his argument with that line. Emotional fan that doesn't know the rules. Add to that,arguing that the angle of the picture can make it look worse (as opposed to just looking at hte cuts of grass). No need to talk further.
     
    JasonMa and KCbus repped this.
  24. LimeTree

    LimeTree Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I thought that, perhaps unofficially, part of the role of the captain was to be the guy to communicate with the ref on the field to cut back on teams crowding the referee. It just also so happens that that role overlapped with having been the point of contention here. Still, I feel 0% bad for Brad Evans getting sent off for grave dumbassery -- both of those yellows are completely on him.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  25. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Thanks for the clarification on the hands. The rules state "any part of the body". I thought hands included "any part of the body", guess not.

    Serious question. Thinking about it, was that a red card regardless of DOGSO. Studs up, from the side if not completely from behind. Yeah, he didn't cleat Larin with the studs. But I've been told on here hundreds of times that the result doesn't matter, only the actions of the defender. Studs up is studs up, is it not?
     

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