Post-match: USA-Canada, 5 February 2016

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dr. Gamera, Feb 6, 2016.

  1. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree - is it Kreis? No Dempsey? Attitude of the team seems so much lighter on and off the field.
     
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  2. lfcli30

    lfcli30 Member

    Jun 21, 2005
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In general, I'm happy with how Jozy looks this camp. He's in shape, he's got that burst of speed again and appears to be playing with little fear of the hamstring blowing out on him. I thought getting him some minutes, some goals and having him anchor the squad up front was a big plus for the Canada game. We need him to be in form, and he definintely looks fit and ready to go for the upcoming year.

    Vincent for me is story #1. He's got as good a shot as any to emerge from the crowded field as our left back, and I want to see him as much as possible this summer. Let him learn, let him grow. Give him the minutes that he needs to cement himself there.

    Jordan Morris offers us a lot moving forward. I was generally pleased with how he played as well, and he doesn't look out of place at all as far as being a national team starter in my view. Did everything but score yesterday, and he'll be doing plenty of scoring for our national team this season. Can't wait to watch him grow with the Sounders and learn a few things from Martins and Dempsey.

    Then obviously the other positives were Keisewetter, Trapp and Nagbe. I believe those three have separated themselves a bit from the rest of the pool when it comes to future consideration, though Klinsmann's refusal to give them a lot of run is maddening. The team seems like has a different dynamic when they're on the field. Now we were playing the Iceland B squad and Canada, so it's a different ask of them entirely to do this at Copa America, but I feel much better about the youth talent level when they're on the field.

    As for the negatives, obviously Jermaine getting major run in both games makes no sense. The very little time we got to see Trapp was very frustrating. If this is Camp Cupcake, give the young kids some major run and don't even bother bringing Jones into the squad. Especially if you're framing this as a camp to get the U-23's for Colombia. Klinsmann just makes no sense many, many times with his lineup decisions.

    Ngyuen and Mix drifted out of the game way, way too often for my liking. I just don't see the need to call them into the squad moving forward. Especially Mix...his form just is not there. Zardes very underwhelming as well, especially his cinder-block quality first touch.
     
  3. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    The same fundamental flaws are there; people seeing something different are talking themselves into it.
     
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  4. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So here's all you need to know about my experience of last night's match...

    (Full disclosure - the TV is in the bedroom)

    I remember Jozy's double poster...

    I remember seeing Kiesewetter coming on...

    I remember the final whistle going off, seeing we won 1-0...

    That's pretty much it.

    (No, no alcohol was involved...BYU Class of '82, remember? :) )
     
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  5. Pisscutter

    Pisscutter Member

    Apr 15, 2005
    Was at the game with the AO. We clearly did better at moving the ball around, looking for options. We practically lived in Canada's side of the field during the 2nd half. We had a bitch of a time finding the final pass. Yes, Canada had an awfully large number of white jerseys in/near the box and a foot or leg always seemed to be close by to cut out a pass.

    However....

    With our very-close view of the incoming action I was astounded to see an almost complete lack of attacking runs off the ball. Lots of movement, yes- but mostly jogging and "shaking" a defender, not looking to make a penetrating foray that would be picked up on by the man with the ball.

    I've noticed this for a long time now- we don't seem to make very good runs off the ball. We can circulate the ball well to supporting players who are open, but in the final third (and in the box, especially) there are very, very few runs made that "call" for the ball.

    The run dictates the pass, not the other way around. (Or at least that's what I used to teach my HS players.) Too much "waiting" for a pass. No real penetration.
     
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  6. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    Don't bring logic to this game. We are beyond such nonsense. Remember, we play everyone out of position.
     
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  7. ATLfirefan

    ATLfirefan Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 8, 2005
    Norcross, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This was my general take from the past two games. Offensively, we did a very good job (considering the players in the pool) at keeping possession. I think that's a testament to the quality of MLS players, that we can rely on them to maintain possession against a style we'll see a lot in CONCACAF.

    But we still have a problem getting in behind a defense on anything other than a cross.
     
  8. Donny10

    Donny10 Member

    Aug 28, 2015
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Agreed. Thank god we got fabian
     
  9. Zinkoff

    Zinkoff Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #59 Zinkoff, Feb 6, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
    I really didn't see many positives. We started in a static 442 that was never going to be the solution against a bunkering Canada. 5/10 starting outfield players were in positions that are not their best (Nguyen, Acosta, Jones, Birnbaum, and I'll say Zardes too, but that is arguable).

    Our outside backs provided little going forward; Birnbaum hardly looked to overlap, and Acosta struggled to play a good final ball with his weaker foot. Vincent looked to overlap, but his final ball was lacking, and I feel like 90% of his passes were straight backwards. Jones and Besler pushed forward through the middle to compensate for the lack of support from the fullbacks, creating a logjam in the center of the park and occasionally leaving their partner isolated. Stupid game planning all around. We kept trying to force our way through Canada's strength.

    Altidore was his usual self. Plenty of bad touches, failed backheels, and little movement with the occasional burst of speed and strength. Had 3-4 great chances and finally finished one. Morris at least made good runs and was very good as a target as the game went on. Still not much by way of touch, and there were a few times where his total lack of a left foot turned a good chance into nothing.

    Nguyen and Nagbe got stranded out on Klinsmann's Island of Misfit Toys. Two very good creative central midfielders told to make something happen as wingers. Both failed to different degrees. Zardes and Kiesewetter both got into some good positions, but generally the end product was lacking. Kiese did get one really great cross in (that Jozy flubbed). Finlay's entrance shifted us into a de facto 433 that we should always be playing, and the extra width and delivery he provided created the goal. In a game where our FB's clearly were never going to give us width, the lack of true wide players was mind boggling. Finlay corrected that.

    Bradley and Mix actually looked alright. Bradley played a bit deeper than usual, and looked better than he did at the tip of the diamond. Mix was active and played a few good balls. Nothing special, but he didn't look bad either. Trapp had a few glaring mistakes, but his work rate, positioning, and aggression helped us out. Would love to see him as a 6.

    Bingham looked in control, coming out to win crosses and through balls expertly. Not much to do though.

    Would've preferred to see
    Zardes-Jozy-Finlay
    Nagbe-Bradley
    Trapp
    Vincent-Besler-Birnbaum-Acosta

    Morris->Jozy
    Kiesewetter->Finlay/Zardes
    Nguyen->Nagbe
    Kitchen->Trapp
    Miller->Vincent
    Mix->Bradley

    A bit more dynamic, and highlights the limited creativity that Klinsy actually did decide to call in.
     
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  10. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I'm a little surprised at all the praise for Vincent and people talking about penciling him in as LB of the future. It was 45 minutes against a Canadian side that barely attacked. Yes, he got into good offensive spots, but his crossing still needs a lot of work, and he didn't have much to do defensively. Let's see how does against competent offenses first before anointing him as the next locked in player. He could easily end up being another Marvell Wynne.
     
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  11. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I don't remember Canada managing a single passing sequence longer than three passes. Most of the time, they lost the ball when they attempted the first pass. Terrible team, that they may qualify to the Hex over Honduras and El Salvador doesn't speak highly of our region.

    As for Mix, I doubt he "likes to wear" the #10. It's more that someone had to have it, and JK has pushed it unto him.
     
  12. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The thing is that there are quite a few american left backs with his same talent in MLS. Vincent may have a higher future, but right now there are others at a similar level who will not get a look.

    The one thing that did show ... a left footed LB really helps.
     
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  13. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    Or maybe because JK went on a charm offensive realizing his players hated him, the U17,U20, U23 were a shambles, he was losing matches in historical fashion and Kreis is knock-knock knocking on the door.

    All of sudden it's rainbows and puppydogs.
     
  14. ATLfirefan

    ATLfirefan Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 8, 2005
    Norcross, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whoa. That kind of in-depth analysis is not allowed when evaluating Klinsmann's player selection.
     
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  15. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    I found him disappointing, a big step down from Acosta. Now he's just turning pro so it is understandable.
     
  16. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eh, he got in to good positions. As long as his crossing improves, he'll start getting assists. Not a great game, but competent, and he's got a lot of room to grow.
     
  17. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All the CM's wide is very frustrating to me. Same story under JK. Yes, I understand a lot of them deserve PT, but, FFS, play Nagbe in the middle. Play Nguyen as a #10. Play Trapp as a #6.

    If we had to win a game tomorrow (hypothetical tomorrow with everyone healthy):

    ----------------Howard----------------
    ????----Cameron---Brooks----Beasley
    -------------Jones--Bradley-----------
    Bedoya----------------------------F. Johnson
    -----------------Dempsey-------------
    ------------------Altidore------------


    Included in our current best XI are some guys who have no chance at being at the next WC (Beasley, Jones) or very little chance (Howard, Dempsey) and a huge gaping hole at RB. And a RW that isn't much of a scoring threat in Bedoya.

    So what do we do? Build around the best younger players in our pool (Bradley, FJ, Brooks) and keep looking for upgrades to the other solid starters at the moment (Altidore, Bedoya, Cameron). Look to the younger guys in the pool for the other spots (RB, LB, 2nd F/CAM, RM, DM, even GK) as no one has really stepped up to take the spots from the guys who are getting older/past their primes (Evans, DMB, Dempsey, Jones, KB, Howard). And let's think about 4-1-4-1/4-2-3-1 given the talent in our pool. Something like:

    -------------------GK-----------------
    Acosta----Cameron---Brooks---Vincent
    -----------------Trapp------------------
    ----------Bradley----Nagbe------------
    Finlay----------Altidore-------------FJ

    Might be the future. Now, guys like Finlay, Vincent, Acotsa, Trapp, and Nagbe are nowhere near A team starting XI at this time (Nagbe is closest). But I'd like to think something like this is where we are heading. Particularly the CM trio of Trapp + Bradley + Nagbe. Throw in a creative CAM type (Nguyen) for more offense or a tougher destroyer type (Williams, Jones for now) as well in the rotation for more defense.

    Not saying Finlay, Acosta, Vincent are the answer, but envision players with similar qualities in those spots.

    I know it was Canada, and JK is driving me crazy playing guys out of position, but I think we do have some hope in the pipeline.
     
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  18. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I turned off the game last night. The first half was crap soccer, and I am tired of watching 44:30 of disorganized street soccer with a few seconds of individual competence. It was not worth a Friday night.

    I picked up this morning, and laughed out loud at Lalas saying Zardes was the US's best player. The kid is a game control train wreck. His decision-making and touch lead to far too many turnovers. He is an energy sub - at best. Almost incomprehensible he is a team leader in appearances right now.

    Bradley's pass to Finlay was world-class. It looked pretty simple, but he hit it quickly and right on the dime, isolating Finlay against Henry before anybody could help cover. Nice cross from Finlay. Crappy soccer game over.
     
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  19. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone else notice that Bradley will have a fullback making a run and wide open and he will look at them then pull back and go the other way? I think why Acosta in the first game and Vincent in the second looked good in the second half was because Nagbe came in and makes those passes. Bradley likes them for decoy status.
     
  20. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I think Tesho can't play wide as requested. He should play ss to Larin's cf because he is smart, a little like Dempsey imo.
     
  21. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's one of the current biggest knocks against Jurgen right now, his infatuation with Gyasi "lead boots" Zardes. I don't get it. He looks no better, actually worse than he did a year ago despite benefiting from more NT mins than any other player during that time. His MLS form also completely relapsed last year. Touch, still stone, IQ, hasn't improved, awareness, still awful. At least Finlay can serve a cross.

    Zardes' body of work shows there's no upside to giving him all these mins. He's essentially just a guy who had one good stretch over his career in large part due to Keane/Landon serving up balls on a platter to him.

    Right now, today, Pulisic is the clearly superior player. Far better touch, far better tactical IQ/awareness. No way would Zardes get on the pitch for Dortmund. Only question is his lack of experience. Then again, Pulisic appears to have a better touch right now than anyone in our full NT attack not named Fabian or Nagbe and it's frustrating as hell seeing our NTers not having the basic ability to trap or quickly connect what should be simple passes, let alone the technical skill to square up and attack players of the Canadian level....
     
  22. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I was already leaning toward him being our starting LB in Russia, BEFORE this game. Also, before he was called into January camp. I saw him in a couple games during the NCAA tournament. He displayed no glaring flaws (opinion largely shared by MLS scouts, read the pre-draft reports about how virtually can't miss/reliable he is), has physical ability, and crossing is more a strength than weakness. In spite of being a fb, he did take some set pieces for his team. That puts things in perspective. In this particular game, it wasn't as good, but it was still fine. He had a good shot on goal, one of his crosses Nagbe should have gotten on the end of for a point blank shot but he doesn't have much killer instinct, and the ones which didn't come off the passes to him pulled his momentum away from the box or there was a defender to block. He was trying to play basic as he pushed the nerves out I think. As he gets comfortable, he'll cut back and layoff or at least make a passable cross with his right under less pressure, as he did more in college. You have to give him credit for getting down the field pretty quickly and timing his runs to provide support on that side. His passing in close was tidy, he often played quick, and square or over the top. He didn't get caught out of position much defensively, stayed in front, and got deflections, steals, or at least forced a long cross. All in all, it was a good, 7.5 type performance for a LB, and I'd bump him up a point for it being his debut.
     
  23. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Usually offensive super-subs have blazing speed, dynamism, aggression, and/or finishing abilities. Zardes really possesses none of those attributes. He has pretty good speed, but a couple below the elite. He has neither the inventiveness nor gumption to take on opponents or show up more than once in a multiple-pass sequence. And his finishing is inefficient. So what does he really bring to the table as a super-sub even? I'd be much more interested in Finlay, Yedlin, Shea, Salinas, etc.; as they bring some of the aforementioned attributes and have had more impressive peaks individually in MLS. All he brings to the table is a guy who isn't terrible at anything (well, maybe touch, for an international). But that's no criteria for selection for a U.S. national team in 2016 (Klinsmann is stuck in a 1980's mindset about U.S. futbol, so maybe that's why he has such an affinity for guys like this). He was the 2nd most used international in the world last year, so basically it was like Klinsmann wasted that entire time when it comes to whatever position he was employed at. One of many incredible failures at integration of potentially useful players going forward since the World Cup.
     
  24. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've given up. I don't even want to run analyses, because what's the point? Jurgen doesn't. That requires him to care about tactics.

    The minute I saw Jones out there at CB I realized that this camp was an utter waste. (The fact that Jones was rewarded with two games after his suspension drives me nuts.)

    But for those that care -

    Key Passes/Assists:
    Michael Bradley - 3
    Gyasi Zardes - 3
    Jordan Morris - 2
    Jozy Altidore - 1 (+1 goal)
    Ethan Finlay - 1 (assist)
    Matt Besler - 1
    Kellyn Acosta - 1
    Mix Diskerud - 1
    Jerome Kiesewetter - 1
     
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  25. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    Jk's take away from this match:

    I found my left back: finlay . I found my supporting striker, zardes. I found my starting dm, Nguyen
     
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