US vs. Mexico: General Postgame Thread (R)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Lloyd Heilbrunn, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Morris in the Honduras game did a superb Altidore impression.
     
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  2. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jim Curtin?
     
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  3. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Good story. Guzan is taller than Howard.
     
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  4. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This. WTF? No knock on Bobby Wood, but if he is our first offensive sub, why isn't he in the 23? Klinnsman is just winging it.
     
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  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    #530 Excellency, Oct 12, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
    I don't think of Jozy and Gio having the kind of partnership that Martins and Dempsey have but maybe I missed something. Go ahead and dump your faves, I personally think the Dempsey-Altidore partnership was stillborn and lately I think Dempsey is just past the Nat team thing and thinking how to close out a career. That is more of a reflection on Klinsi than Dempsey. What is Dempsey supposed to do, say he doesn't care anymore? It would be nice if we had a manager who assessed his players more as humans and less as wind up robots.
     
  6. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    that's ridiculous
     
  7. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I don't know for sure if you are right or wrong about Howard saving that shot but I think you are definitely short changing Keller. I would put Keller right up there with Friedel and a step ahead of Howard. I have always believed that Howard is the one you want to get you that one outstanding save but is more likely to give up an easy goal. Both Keller and Friedel were outstanding but more consistent than Howard.
     
  8. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    - Altidore disappears from games for long stretches. Morris did just that.
    - Altidore tries to slice through the defense when he appears. Morris did that.
    - Altidore flops like a sack of potatoes as soon it gets difficult. Ditto for Morris.
    - Altidore has a share of disallowed goals that should have counted. Morris got his first one.

    So, unless you think Morris is the second coming or think Altidore is a terrible player (your case), it's fitting.
     
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  9. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I prefer Howard to Guzan, but there is a great behind the goal POV of the shot. It was a rope. Howard might have gotten closer, but it would have been the save of the century to stop that one. Truth is it was two fairly fortuitous touches before the shot, but we were giving Mex so much possession, no one can be surprised things eventually fell their way.
     
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  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    #535 Excellency, Oct 12, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
    Jones was switched right to help Beasley. Mexico was salivating at the Zardes/Beasley pairing.

    Fab, like Dempsey, was like "oh, no, I flew 5000 miles for this same old sh*t again".
     
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  11. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You're supposed to exclaim "oh, of course, PK's, it was that even." Klinsi would make a great poker player.
     
  12. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, I agree. I think that is still what has to happen. Those guys still have something to offer but not for long, and so JK needs to transition them out slowly so they can pass on their knowledge, leadership, and vision to the next generation.

    Some of the guys need to go now, but it is a balance of figuring out how to do it, little by little. More so it is smart to think of what are the most necessary and important problems to fix asap, and then focus on those while leaving veterans helping in areas where we don't have problems. Right now the needs is at the wings, attacking midfield, and DM. If JK can get those things sorted out, he then can focus on the rest, but he doesn't need to push change and transition in areas where we are solid or even really good. That just makes the entire team crap and inconsistent, and is basically what we have been watching for the last year.
     
  13. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Morris did what was eventually going to happen to him... finally have to play in a game that mattered against equal or better opposition and have things not go well. It is part of his maturation process, and now it all depends on how he handles it and what he does next. But, this happens to all young players and probably several times.

    This is why JK never took him to the GC (he could have held off his surgery) or the Mexico match, and why it will still be a bit be before we see him in a real qualifier... if ever. JK knew that once he hit an actual team playing for keeps with actual pro players, that Morris would dissapear. Its natural. And thankfully JK was wise enough not to force Morris in way in over his head to early.

    Unfortunately because of poor preparation and coaching it looks like Morris and several other rising stars won't get a shot at tourney play and development in the Olympics... neither the Confed Cup. So now it is up to Morris to get pro games in MLS or whatever league he signs with to really prepare him for the rigors of international soccer. That is to say, I don't think we see him in any "real" qualifiers till at the earliest the Hex, or he has really proved himself at the pro level.
     
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  14. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By the way, is anyone going to ask Sunil the obvious questions.

    1. Failure at CONCACAF level in the GC and now against Mexico to get to the stated goal of CONFED Cup?

    2. Consecutive Olympics we have failed to qualify for (probably)? I guess we still have a shot, and anything could happen, so we probably have to wait till after the Canada and Columbia matches.

    Of course Sunil needs to look at the bottom line of "capitalizing" on US soccer interest at an all time high of public interest... which was slowly built brick by brick by being the Olympics and beating teams like Spain in the CONFED Cup, which is now being dismantled brick by brick by the current administration. We just missed out on two massive opportunities to have US players and the US team playing in front of millions in important international tournments.

    So not only is the program going backwards in terms of success and development soccer wise but also backwards in exposure and public interest.

    A major disaster is brewing.
     
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  15. swedust

    swedust Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    A performance like Fab-J's against Mexico is, to me, an explanation of why so many followers of the team think that our player pool lacks talent. Because it becomes clear as day that even a talented player can be reduced to looking ordinary when being played out of position and/or tactically under-utilized.

    Is there really a dearth of talent relative to prior recent periods? It's possible -- I have never been a coach at training camp, so have never seen the players close-up, under a variety of conditions, and over an extended period of time. But as a fan who only sees the games, I openly question the "too little talent" diagnosis, as it has been clear from literally dozens of matches during the JK tenure that inappropriate usage of a player's strengths makes it appear that he is lacking.

    That's how I explain Johnson, last night's version anyway....
     
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  16. RoadBikerJoe

    RoadBikerJoe New Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Bradley needed to leave with his father.
     
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  17. RoadBikerJoe

    RoadBikerJoe New Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Herein lies one of the bigger broken pieces of our game...
     
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  18. smokey

    smokey Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    Cali
    It was Dempsey who was the no show this time. JA was no star, but he did get on the ball and.attempted to combine with others. He took on players one v one and launched some speculative shots on goal. Dempsey did Jack but dive once in the box after getting cleanly stripped. Then he lazily jogged around the field observing proceedings.
     
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  19. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    Really? You are entertained watching a team that can't do the simplest of things right? A team giving the ball away over and over, a team that can't clear a ball, a team that can't maintain possession, a team that has very little intelligent off the ball movement and where in nearly all but one instance (Wood goal) when there was a decent run it went unnoticed by the player with the ball? How many times did Guzan kick a goal kick out of bounds or so close to the sidelines to give our player little chance to make something of it? It's exciting to see the US somehow hang on and fight back despite themselves, but otherwise that was about as unenjoyable as it can get for me.
     
  20. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    It was an FA Cup game, with the lower-division side equalizing twice to take the EPL squad to the limit. Great theater although not objectively great soccer.
     
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  21. Right Foot Planted

    Aug 11, 2007
    Howard: Height: 6' 3"
    Guzan: Height: 6' 4"
     
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  22. Bookmesir

    Bookmesir Member

    Oct 14, 2012
    Club:
    FC Aarau
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clint and Jozy were invisible, seemed to be jogging for most of the night (though when the cameras closed in on JA, at least he looked out of breath...can't say it looked like Clint even broke a sweat).. Neither one can press; we were playing as though down 2 men, not one...conceding possession with no effort to disconcert Mexico's back line. They were less than pedestrian in this game with El Tri's dictating the pace.
    For as much as people are praising Jones for leaving it all out there, how can you watch him play and not be seriously infuriated at his constant gamesmanship? For f*cks sake, he made Marquez looked gentlemanly. He is a prick out there, when trying to gain any advantage he can in plays he knows he's lost the battle to before he even goes in for the tackle. How many times did we see him go to ground after losing the ball, fouling his man, et al? Yes, he gets up and ultimately rejoins the play, but I am beyond tired watching him try to bait the ref each and every time he's involved in a play.
    With his slowing down athletically, these antics loose any semblance of their "charm."
     
  23. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Joey looks out of breath after about a minute and a half into every game. It's weird.
     
  24. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Should have checked before I posted. 6'4 versus 6'3.
     
  25. repin1836

    repin1836 Member

    Jan 26, 2006
    Houston
    I brought this up for someone who called me out on another site...

    About a year ago I talked to a player who was in the World Cup camp team last go around. They stated, when at Stanford they did 3-a-days and they were closer to boot camps with the amount of fitness being done. Once they got to the World Cup, training sessions hardly changed, just fewer of them and more recovery sessions. I don't want to discuss the player, since it was discussed in an informal conversation and that would be rude.

    But honestly have you not noticed that we look like the more tired team in almost every game this year? When you look at friendlies where Klinsmann only has 2-days before we look solid. Give him a week and they ALWAYS look tired.

    I never hear other countries come out and discuss fitness when international duty occurs, other than injuries. But Klinsmann seems to discuss this a lot. It has even been shown on Youtube that he has brought in nutritionalist and yoga experts to improve fitness. This should be done at the club level and international breaks should be used to develop the team, not the individual. Maybe this is how he puts on his technical director hat.

    Here are some links with direct quotes from players questioning Jurgen's training...

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2014/...ts-idea-overtraining-led-three-injuries-usmnt

    http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2015/02/does-jurgen-klinsmann-have-a-training-problem/

    http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/...peanut-butter-and-jelly-sandwiches-from-usmnt

    Interestingly I think Arsene Wenger has the same issue, but he has depth, money and world class talent (http://the18.com/news/why-do-arsenal-players-get-injured-so-much).

    * I should note that Mexico was the better team, overtraining or not. It was Mexico that beat our players, not Jurgen, technically. Just another issue to throw in the pile.
     

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