CONMEBOL vs UEFA

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by maxsanta, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Uruguay is no powerhouse but they are consistently a mid-table CONMEBOL team in WC qualifying. They should be compared to mid-tier UEFA teams like Slovenia and Scotland. In that sense, they are pretty good.
     
  2. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    How on Earth did Croatia and Czech Republic, who always lose in the first round of the WC in this century, have such high ELOs when NTs like USA, Paraguay, Ghana, Nigeria and Japan are much better? This is why ELO's should not be considered the ultimate stickyard of quality.
     
  3. dna77054

    dna77054 Member+

    Jun 28, 2003
    houston
    Here are the final numbers for the last 2 WCs. I had made a mistake in the finishing places above. It is corrected here. The Points per game calculation includes all games played for each confed, EXCEPT INTRA confed games (eg Ger-Por and Bra-Chi are not included in the calculation) PPG includes the third place games.

    2010 WC
    avg Euro finishing place: 16.15
    ave Conmebol fin. place: 6.6

    avg Euro ppg: 1.42
    agv Con ppg: 1.78

    2014 WC
    avg Euro finishing place: 14.85
    ave Conmebol fin. place: 8.17

    avg Euro ppg: 1.52
    avg Con. ppg: 2.0
     
  4. chewie4917

    chewie4917 Member

    Sep 10, 2011
    I’m not sure if you’re talking mostly about quality or achievements here. If you’re talking about depth, then one could make the very reasonable argument that Belgium 14-15 has more quality than Greece 2004 and Paraguay 2010-11, for example.

    Neither Greece nor Paraguay is close now. If that’s what you meant, then I agree. Right now, Belgium is considerably stronger than both Greece and Paraguay.

    But, at its peak in the 2000s, Greece won a European Championship. In the 2010s, Paraguay reached the quarter finals of world cup 10; the same round reached by Belgium 14. Paraguay 10 had less depth than Belgium 14. Paraguay 10 also came up against stronger opponents en route to the final stages: they drew against the defending Champions (Italy) in the group stage and lost narrowly to one of the great world cup champions of recent times (Spain 10). Belgium 14 didn’t have to sweat it out against a reigning champ or finalist in the group stage. That is pretty significant.

    Paraguay 11 reached the final of a continental tournament without winning a game. Paraguay 14 reached the semi finals of the same event on pure grit. Grit has less commercial value than quality, though, which is why so few really care.

    Between 08 and now, Belgium has shown to be a new prodigy. That’s why I didn’t rank them in a top 16, again, for this period.

    Right now, I’d say that Belgium is comfortably top 10 (possibly top 8). Paraguay is in a transitional phase (the tight, efficient, cagey football is better suited for knock-out competitions; world cup qualifiers consist of a league format, which plays against this football). Greece, in terms of quality, is one or two levels below Belgium. In a knock-out format, though, such as the European Championships, I would imagine that this gap would close significantly, even if Belgium is still stronger.

    I want to see Belgium at EURO 16. The depth is there to replicate the success of Belgium 80, 86 and 14.
     
  5. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Miramar, Florida
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Croatia and the Czech Republic did reasonably well in the Euros though during this time. The Czechs made the semifinals in 2004, beating Germany and the Netherlands along the way. They also made the quarterfinals in 2012. Croatia made the quarters at Euro 2008, beating Germany in the group stage.
     
  6. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The Czech were impressive in Euro04 but in Euro12 they advanced from the weakest group and quickly lost to Portugal. Croatia made the quarters in Euro08 but were far from impressive, and do not have another tournament of good display in this century to merit such a high ELO.
     
  7. Nicola777

    Nicola777 Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Iceland at top of a group in front of netherlands...Croatia ahead of Italia...slovakia ahead of Spain...poland ahead of germany...Wales ahead of belgium...albania giving portugal and denmark a match! serbia new generations european champion u19 2013 and world champion u20 2015 will be ready for 2018....uefa got the best teams in the world and more depth in quality as well...there are dozen uefa squads that CAN match colombia or Chile Last world Cup performance when it Will Be played in russia.
     
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  8. Tukafo

    Tukafo Member+

    Oct 12, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    On their day of course they can but ultimately they are too inconsistent. Teams like Poland or Slovakia can beat the world champions but they can also lose to Belarus. Not enough consistency to finish in high positions in tournaments.
     
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  9. Hideo

    Hideo Member

    Newcastle United and Shimizu S-Pulse
    Apr 30, 2010
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    So you agree with me then, that Uruguay aren't "easily on par with the giants of UEFA" since you say that Spain and Germany have better recent records than them...

    Let's not even get into their respective records over the last few decades. One good tournament in 2010 (when they lost to the first really good team they met - the Netherlands) does not a giant make...
     
  10. ????? Surinam is an independant country for decades now and there are no players born in Surinam in the Orange team for at least the last 10 years, in which we were WC finalist and 3d. So if you make stupid comments about them being a better team with poached players, then show me who they are.
     
  11. There is no shame with some posters to come up with shit:rolleyes: Mention who in the last 2 WC and EC in the Orange team were from South America? In fact in all our tournements in which we made the WC finals we played none that were from South America and not born and raised and developed in the Netherlands. People keep on shitting this kind of garbage to play down our achievements their own countries are incapable of coming close to. Stop whining and start to develop like we do.
     
  12. #187 feyenoordsoccerfan, Jul 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2015
    Robben, van Nistelrooij, van Persie, Bergkamp, Cruijff, van Hanegem, de Boer twins, Stam, Gullit, Rijkaard, van Basten....all Dutch born and developed by us and that list goes on and on. The only ones that were from Surinam were Mijnals and two other guys whose name I cannot remember, so very good these must not have been and were in the 1950 decade.
    So come up with a list of non Dutch born, raised and developed players that made a huge impact to get the Orange team to the high level we are on from let's say 1970. You will fall silent as you cannot. Your country isnot capable of reaching our status, so you coe up with a lame and false excuse to why we can and yours cannot.
     
  13. chewie4917

    chewie4917 Member

    Sep 10, 2011
    Qualifiers are good indicators of form. As indicators of nerve or how clutch a team can be, they aren't particularly useful.

    As for UEFA having more depth and quality than CONMEBOL, that's generally what I'd expect from a confederation with 50+ members.
     
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  14. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    They are not on par with Germany and Spain, I don't think anyone in their right mind would claim that. But they are not very far off and they have the history and tradition to make them overachieve (these things matter a lot in international football).
     
  15. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Hell's fire, man! Ok, we get your point :mad:
     
  16. Nicola777

    Nicola777 Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    the top 10 uefa is far superior to the 10 commebol nations overall...

    there are plenty of uefa squads that can match colombia and chile world cup 2014, belgium, greece or swiss already did in the same tournament in brazil while 2 uefa nations finished world champion and 3rd....
    can't wait for 2018 we'll see now in europe.
     
  17. KennyWoo

    KennyWoo Member

    May 21, 2007
    Pasadena, California
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They "quickly" lost? Was the match only 20 minutes long or something?
     
  18. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Disagree about Croatia in 2008. They were fairly impressive. Really should have reached the semis at least. They outplayed Turkey badly but succumbed to a fluky long-ball goal on the last kick of the game.
     
  19. Nicola777

    Nicola777 Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    What did Colombia in world Cup before 2014? Or Chile before 2010? The croatian squad coming is much better than the previous ones, same about Serbia that Got a golden génération coming right now...They are only middle second tier in Europe and this catégory of team Will challenge the résults of Chile and colombia in 2018 you'll see..just a matter of time
     
  20. I may be touchy when it comes to false accusations degrading our achievements, but I am with you when it comes to detesting mercenary methods by countries like Italy and more recently Spain. I donot value the titles won by Italy strengthened with nationalized players.
     
  21. chewie4917

    chewie4917 Member

    Sep 10, 2011
    What do you have against the mid-tiers of South America? No one here is making generalisations. The fact is that Uruguay and Chile, to give two clear examples, have been better quantitatively and qualitatively than all UEFA middleweights in the last eight years. Look at the numbers that matter: their numbers in the last 2 world cups and Copa Americas in this period. Look at many of their results in FIFA friendlies, even, against UEFA middleweights in this period. Middleweights like Uruguay and Chile have to be compared to middleweights of UEFA because they are middleweights, not heavyweights. No one is saying that they are great, only that in the middleweight division of FIFA worldwide, both teams have been at the top in the mentioned time-frame. I would also say that the heavyweight division in world football today consists of fewer teams than in the past (Germany, Netherlands, Argentina and, still, Spain).

    And, to answer your questions, if no one else will: Colombia did nothing of importance before 2014. Chile sucked for most of the 2000s. With the exception of 95, Uruguay was a sleeping giant in the 1990s. Football is cyclical. That's how it goes.

    For what it's worth, I suspect that Croatia's good years are just around the corner. Same with Serbia. With proper management, both should experience a successful period very soon.

    I really don't care who's at the top and who isn't. If I can see another Belgium 86, Cameroon 90, Sweden and Romania 94, Czech Republic 96, and Croatia 98, that's all good for me.
     
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  22. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The match was settled early.

    Good post. One correction, Colombia of WC90 was an outstanding side, playing eventual champions West Germany to a standstill. They got a bit overconfident and lost to an exciting Cameroon side. They also won Copa America 01 in historic fashion, although unfortunately Argentina did not participate.
     
  23. Nicola777

    Nicola777 Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    #198 Nicola777, Jul 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015
    I agree with you....
    that's exactly my point...but uruguay chile and colombia shouldn't be compared to second tier uefa as far as i'm concerned...cause the second tier uefa does't start from the 3rd or 4th team in europe...

    germany, holland, spain, france, italia against brazil, argentina, uruguay, chile, colombia?

    and then

    the portugal, england, belgium, croatia vs the paraguay, ecuador, venezuela, peru?

    both uefa tiers are better than the commebol ones, i reckon also that in the next years, squads such as portugal, england, belgium, croatia, serbia and certainly some others unexpected such as sweden, russia etc will challenge uruguay, chile or colombia performances without any doubts....there will be 2-3 from these uefa teams in 1/4 finals of the next world cup and at least one in semi finals...i can bet on that right now

    people tend to forget that the last 2 world cups were played in south africa and brazil and still we got the world champions, the second, the third in africa, then the world champion and the third in brazil with teams from second tiers in 1/4 finals and round 16

    but we'll see now how commebol teams will deal with russian environment!
     
  24. Bosnian Diamond

    Bosnian Diamond Member+

    Aug 9, 2011
    Mars
    Club:
    FK Velez
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Can't wait to see how Conmebol teams fare in an EE atmosphere with teams like Russia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Bosnia, Serbia, Ukraine, etc. having HUGE support (if they qualify).
     
  25. Tukafo

    Tukafo Member+

    Oct 12, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    This may be a factor or it may not. Huge home support didn't help Poland and Ukraine when they hosted Euro 2012, both still lost badly so it may not be as big a factor
     

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