PreM/PBP/PostM: Germany vs. USA | Montreal |June 30

Possibly. I kept reading post after post which would reply to everything but the highlights of the PK-worthy fouls. Sorry, I misread you.

 

I guess it is reading comprehension on your part. I actually stated that I like to take your diatribes as statements hoping for the increase in quality of all women's soccer. Where it lets you down is when you specifically niggle against the USA for example the Title IX jab.

I love being called a white knight because it is the male equivalent of Godwin's law. OOoooo don't say something about someone/something that I don't like or I will call you a white knight to try to deflect any relevance of your argument.

I was pointing out the Euro specifically because it was the last thing Germany's Senior WNT has won, and the only Euro since 2011 WWC was in 2013. Of course Germany win's them all, just as you complain about financial support of women's soccer in the USA, German WNT by far gets the most financial support and has the most truly professional players. 2 teams in France is not enough. Though only having two teams with most players starting on one team for the last 7 years sure makes that passing telepathic. As soon as historical soccer nations get really involved the USWNT will be at a big disadvantage. Even though far more fans watch professional WoSo in the USA it is not financially sustainable at high professional salaries. Teams do not have the history on the men's side with academies and training. Having FAs and big money club teams truly put their money in will be too much to overcome. Add to that the NCAA system which gives us a leg up with a huge player pool will always stifle the best of the best. We cannot have players on pro teams learning their craft early a la Marozan.

Believe me we all want these problems solved. Kick and chase is lame. But the endless bashing is trifling and stale. And it ignores the main point. The end result DOES matter in all of this as a sport. It is better to move forward, but it also has to prove it can win. France knows that all too well.

 

The funny thing is the US men don't bring in even close to the best athletes at this time. If we could attract the highest quality athletes to soccer at a young age and keep them it would do wonderful things. Along with good technical and tactical coaching of course. And you are crazy if you don't think the best athletes in Europe of South America don't play soccer.

The US actually could have their best female athletes play women's soccer there are no big paying NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL to steal those players. But the fact that the profession doesn't pay very well, and the nature of the for profit childrens soccer systems provide mostly nothing in the way of quality technical and tactical training. Also often the best athletes don't get to play. Win it all now with the children's leagues is an albatross on the neck of the USWNT. (Along with the NCAA)

 

Kenne most likely moonlights as a police officer, the Bundesliga is 9 months of long season. Down below is a chart on how much the NT starters make playing in the BUND. It's respectable, don't know how much the German NT pays them, but probably no where near the est. 250K the US players make for playing for the NT(or is that the figure if they win the WC?) and of course Morgan will make an easy over one mill. in endorsements, not sure how much Press is making from her Coppertone contract.


One tidbit story, last year Alexandra Popp, had this miss an important Algarve Cup final to race back to Germany, to take her examine to become a licensed 'zookeeper' as they wouldn't postpone the test for her

 

Wow what a great graphic! I had no idea they made that much money (euros I assume).

I also had no idea the US women made 250k. Is that ALL of the team? Even the benchwarmers?

Interesting though that the US women are able to make so much more, because I am sure the top players get a nice salary from their NWSL teams PLUS the USWNT salary, whereas you are showing the German women's salaries from the Bundesliga.

ps - Popp? Zookeeper?? Wow.

 

Meh, the whole USSF don't have access to it's nations best athlete debate, is fast turning any possible rational analysis, into never actually able to prove, dead end speculation.

Messi looks like a hobbit, Ronaldo an Adonis, but look at everybody else who's elite outside of those two, it's hard to believe the worlds best athletes equate to producing the best players, assembling to make the best teams.

This whole topic always ends up being a dead end argument.

 

USWNT players don't get paid by NWSL, but the allocated players get paid very well by USWNT .
Pay to play in an European WNT is insignificant compared to the pay from USWNT or the top Euro Leagues.

 

The whole style of play debate is just a distraction to whats being said by many people other than myself too, as we all know playing turgid football once in a while is what's needed to get across the finishing line, but in the women's game, it can literally be used to describe the only route to success throughout an entire tournament for the sports best teams.

This for me is where the women's game needs to improve further, and I don't think it will happen in the stewardship of the U.S., but instead sits with the nations who continue to go through the kind of boom and bust cycles, causing me to have growing doubts, we'll soon see the kind of needed parity increasing leaps forward in global professionalism, the men's game saw not so long ago.

 

@necron99 If people can't handle somebody attaching anything even remotely negative to the U.S.wnt, why are they even here, jumping into discussions people like myself were having on what the rest of the world may feel about this game, and the WC in general...?

From weeks one and two of this world cup, I've been in other threads specific to discussing the quality/lack of quality, witnessed at this world; and when we saw teams ranked #1 and #2 in the world meet, all I've done is echo many of the same sentiments other people posted throughout the world of the internet, with interests way outside of need to placate the U.S.wnt fans.

So even if I don't enjoy throwing around the dude bro idea of white knighting, having you or other U.S.wnt fans jumping to the defense of the U.S. on this subject of quality, grows rather annoying, when it's pretty clear to most people in here, that I have little interest in just sh*ting on the U.S.; and especially when I've said on numerous occasions now, that Germany were way more disappointing in the semi final clash (I have higher expectations for Germany), than anything the U.S. produced too.

Highlight something as crazy as Title IX, was only helping to explain the crazy it's equivalent world be, if it ever got set up in Europe or South America; firmly demonstrating the uphill grind many other female programs still have in the search towards professionalism, where the best we can see now, still forces it's elite athletes/pro's to hold second jobs/careers, at the same time of playing in front of 20-30k people a few times a year lol.

Jumping into my debate, where I set about explaining why the view on Germany naturally slowing down was wrong, I think you confused me listing what's seen the DFB obtain it's most successful period with the women, as some form of fanboy posturing; but it wasn't, it was merely a showcase of why German fans, have so little time to indulge ideas of them losing to a great U.S. team right now.

 

I think your definition of an "athlete" has to change in order to understand the problem. When I think of an "athlete" I don't necessarily think of a Superman(woman) who can run faster or jump higher or lift more weight than another individual. I think of someone with incredibly good eye-hand coordination (or in this case, eye-foot coordination, which I think is the same trait just using different limbs); someone whose brain reacts very fast to the movement of the players around him, and who can see a play developing around him and predict the correct next move to make without thinking consciously about it. It doesn't matter if you look like Adonis or a hobbit if you have those traits. You're just "wired" differently than everybody else.

These are guys who are well above average at many different sports, because they bring these same traits to whatever they do. (For example, there are many professional athletes who retire and quickly become scratch golfers because they bring the same eye-hand coordination to whatever they do.) Anyway, in order to be more than "above average" but to actually achieve "World class" status in a given sport, patterning has to start at an early age, and be reinforced throughout adolescence. It is in that regard that the USSF doesn't have access to THAT individual as that child is already playing baseball, football, and basketball 12 months a year.

 

The 250K is not just salary. That number also includes potential bonuses for making NT rosters and winning games and tournaments. So the players that play more will get more money than the ones that mostly ride the bench.

 

Title IX was a great thing back in the day when it was created. I don't think women athletes would be anywhere near where they are because of it.

Where did this take place? What part of the thread?

 

Why yes, Soccernutter, I am happy to compare and contrast my definition and how it is different in men's v. women's soccer in the US. Does it have to be double spaced? Can I turn it Monday? MLA formatting?

I think it's pretty clear that the US - and many other countries, as I mentioned - put a premium on fitness/high raw athletic ability: speed, endurance, etc. (evidenced by the ubiquitous beep test etc.) This is not unique to the US by any means (as I pointed out) but I think that the US (and many other countries - England, Germany, etc) have less tolerance for high-skill players that are not in top physical form.

The women's game is similar. The US rewards top athletes with college advantage, women as well as men, and therefore there is a much greater incentive for athletically skilled women to take up and continue with sports - and of course, much of that translates to soccer. So while in some countries there is very little incentive to continue sports past the "natural dropoff" age of 12 or 13, in the US (and some other countries) there is a very strong incentive for athletically gifted/strong girls to continue to play.

It is not an absolute, of course, but Batfink was suggesting there was a strong similarity in US women and men's style, and I don't think that is true. I think the fact that both the US men and women tend to put out very athletic players can give the casual observer that impression, but, as I wrote someplace in this thread, I think how the two teams want to play is very different.

Did I pass? Did I? I really need this grade. I can do extra credit if I have to!

 

Lol, I appreciate the fact that she "paid" the bet, but the way she sang was absolutely atrocious!
And I am afraid that wasn't on purpose.

 

you can't blame her though, in this video, Alexi was grilling her before the game(though not shown, Ariane held a replica trophy, kissed it and waived to Alexi and said "you never won one of these"

 

Yeah, when you understand the way the rest of the world works, it's a truly amazing piece of civil rights legislation. Amazing!

Could you imagine the backlash if the EU had to back women's sport with a modest 5%, of what's currently spent in the development of their male sports landscape....

freisland said (Germany) "has progressed less than anyone else, save, perhaps the US", proposing that progress becomes more incremental the longer you remain at the top; but I felt that was manly from people reading into Silvia Neid's poor use of the resources available, as German women's football are presently going through their best period ever right now, with me highlighting a few clear reasons as to why.

necron99 a little later, then decided to get involved in this discussion of German/elite level stagnation, but I think he miss took my explaining unseen DFB new found success, with fanboy like posturing after a very recent poor performance; which was actually meant to be anything but the case.

Most German's interested in their women's game, think Slivia Neid wasted a decade of development in Canada, and mistakenly now has people outside of Europe, genuinely believing Germany hasn't got much more room for improvement anymore too.

 

She did? Is there a video of it?

 

Again though, isn't all of this just another misdirection to the #1 truth of football (soccer).... it's a truly unique game at it's most elite levels, that can't simply be defined by the standard of what typically makes an elite athlete?

Plus believing great hand eye coordination, is the same as great eye foot coordination...., really doesn't help with any discussion on why America struggles with creating global elite footballers either; as this logic only continues to feed the lie, of USSF not gaining access to it's nations top athletes, when any fool can see a 2.03m/6ft 8 Labron James, could never be an elite footballer within the worlds top teams; and this no matter how early he learnt the game either.

Bad diets, poor/horrible social environments, has third world America find great athletes specific to their most culturally beloved sports. The same negative factors in the rest of the world, and you see still the same thing happen, but this time specific to football being the nations most culturally beloved sport, and this without the need of ever being a freakish super athlete.

So in less the U.S. revolutionize football around the idea of it's super athlete, I don't see how the debate of the USSF having access to the icons of it's nations other sports makes sense anymore; as nations developing elite/world class male footballers, may be one of the most difficult things to reproduce in all of sport right now.

 

in the US there's no pro club ala Barca or Bayern Munich that's establishes a youth development system. There's no youth NT year round residency's set up to establish an more centralized or visionary style to work on. In fact(and this might shock you) but in soccer in this country, it's parents who have to dole anywhere from $1000 to $3000 a year, to place their kid in what's called a 'select' soccer club, in hopes in further developing their skills. There well might be over a thousand of these 'mom & pop' operations that have low ranked coaches teaching kids nothing more than basic individual skills or fancy dribbling this is what the real money in American soccer is spend on(video below).
Of course the US has numbers; it's a huge participation sport, only 2nd to baseball. On the female sector; millions play youth soccer at the rec level, 380K in high school, 37K in college. Speaking of high school, here is where the Americans love for multi sports come into play. Usually kids that are into cross country & or track tend to thrift into soccer, this turning it into one of the more 'athletic' sports as compared to baseball or volleyball which is not so much about fitness, but nerves, hand & eye coordination. My own girl that's done a whole lot of activities(but soccer is her favorite), she hated her one season in volleyball, considering it a way too intelligent of a game, considering all the hidden signals & Q's to remember between team mates while in the heat of the game.
At the national level, the Women's NT has had now 3 coaches from Europe, the men's; the highly popular Jurgen Klinsman. But the men's team got a bad rap for having an almost non existent midfield(and you would think better from a German coach, lol). But Klinsman as well as Ellis, Sermanni & Pia, show they can't change the system the way American players have been brought on, which again, is playing on the 1000 independent 'select' clubs,
And as promised, where the 'real money' spend on in American soccer(by parents of course!)

 

This is such a convoluted mess of words, I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

 

First thanks for your insights into the womens game in Germany much appreciated.

I do however disagree with your thoughts on USSF not getting access to the best talent. Using Lebron as an example is with all due respect very poor and you must know that. I could counter by saying what about all the corner backs running backs and wide receivers in the NFL. You have incredible athletes between 5'9" and say 6'1". They easily have the body types to play soccer. I mean if USSF had gotten athletes like Deion and Barry Sanders we would have a better team. World class probably not because our training is poor, but to suggest that the argument is without merit is incorrect IMO