NYRB @ Boy City Sun. 6/28 @ 5pmEDT on ESPN [R]

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by kokoplus10, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Like all very young prospects he's prone to a little overblown hype, but even with all the love getting thrown his way I think most people are understanding that he's still a work in progress. Safe bet that he's headed back to the bench once Sam is healthy again and BWP will go back up top.

    I think what has people excited most is how quickly he's improving and adapting to the speed of MLS play. His movement off the ball and his first touch are still very raw, but compared to how he looked at the start of the year with USL and a few MLS cameos, its night and day. He had a few plays yesterday where he not only took down a long ball cleanly, but had the confidence to turn past his defender and either draw a foul or find space to let his teammates catch up. He wasn't doing that kind of stuff a few months ago. His passing is still atrocious though...

    At the very least he's got great athleticism and a natural nose for goal. We'll see how quickly he can round out the rest of his game, but there's reason for optimism with the kid.
     
  2. Metrosuccess

    Metrosuccess Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotta say Iceman that having a slid quartet of Mix, Villa, Lampard, and Pirlo of the 10 field players does scare me a little come playoff time. Even if the other six are just average this could be a tough team to play against due to the offensive skills of these guys.
     
  3. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    If you can't understand the problem, I won't keep trying to explain it. But I will say that it got old a long time ago that so many of their fans became City fans simply as a way to piss on the Red Bulls. If anyone else on this board bought into that hype, they have my pity, but either way it's not my problem.

    The chant I heard at one point yesterday, "F___ the Red Bulls," I don't take personally, it's just an example of a lack of class. So too was the City fan at Kicking and Screening who despite the fact that it wasn't about him, couldn't stop himself from interrupting my conversation with Bryan James to boo the Red Bulls. OTOH, if they want to be better than the Red Bulls on the field, then they simply have to go out and prove it.
     
  4. RedBullFootball

    Apr 7, 2008
    #29 RedBullFootball, Jun 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
    Okay man okay... gotcha.

    I didnt realize it was more about fan smack talk. Listen to the South Ward, this place isnt exactly oozing class much of the time either.

    Isnt one of their chants F@ck DC Uniiiiittedd?? Answer, It is, I was chanting it with them on the way in the RFK during the playoffs last year.
     
  5. RedBullFootball

    Apr 7, 2008
    #30 RedBullFootball, Jun 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
    He seems pretty clumsy to me. That's not to say I dont see anything good about the guy. He's done a few good things. We'll see though. At this point he is still basically good for a few chuckles for me.

    On the flip side, I was very impressed with Sashas second half. This guy was firing on all cylinders. He looked like a real CAM. Really nice stuff. I am not fooled into over thinking this as it was only one half and against NYFC D horrific defense (See BWP left open in the box on his goal) . Still, he looked great. Hopefully he will run with this confidence.

    Felipe still looks like Felipe. I am not sure any of this guys shots could split a wet paper towel.

    Nice Finish from BWP. He needed that.

    And man I am loving what I am seeing from Max Miazga as he was called on the broadcast on Sunday. Enjoy him while he is still here. He's a player. Watching him jaw with David Villa then close him down all game is so much fun to watch.

    Zubar and Abang both have comic relief in common for me. Awesome that he is injured AGAIN. Although, Zubar actually looked good for the 17 minutes he has played for us this season.
     
  6. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Dude's taken 35 shots this year and the only time he's scored is when the ball accidentally slammed off his face a few inches in front of goal. He was never a prolific goal scorer for Montreal but he pitched in a few nice finishes here and there, not sure what his deal is right now.

    Our central midfielders as a whole have really fell short in terms of finishing this year. Only three goals between Kljestan, Felipe, and Dax, woulda been nice to have them pitch in during BWP's slump.
     
  7. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CDM's shouldn't have to carry the team's goal scoring.
     
  8. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Carry? No absolutely not, but contributing something whatsoever would be nice. Dax has managed a handful of goals per season from that spot, Felipe gets forward to the top of the box pretty often (enough to take 35 shots), Kljestan is supposed to be an advanced player. To me, three goals total between all of them through 16 games isn't enough.
     
  9. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're 16 league games in.

    Dax has appeared in 225 league games and scored 15 career league goals. That's about 1 goal every 15 games. So he should have 1 goal right now.

    Sasha should be scoring about 1 out of 7. He has 2 goals. He's on pace.

    Felipe should be scoring about 1 in every 8. He's behind his average pace by 1 goal (However, he was used higher up the pitch for Montreal quite a bit)

    So you're upset about 2 goals?
     
  10. holiday

    holiday Member+

    Oct 16, 2007
    yeah, none of those guys are scorers. and the system marsch is using isn't designed to get mc carty or felipe any real looks at goal.
    any lack of scoring would be due to: wp's numbers being down; the absence (almost always) of another striker in the lineup; and the fact that the wingers don't seem like good scorers either.
     
  11. RedBullFootball

    Apr 7, 2008
    Its a different type of team this year. We can't rely on Theirry to drive the O. We have to spread the scoring/production around.

    When Felipe has looks like he has, he must finsh more. Otherwise these limited chances that we create are wasted. Sasha our big siging, must be more productive. He hasn't been.

    You can't expect X number of goals from this postion or that postion and then compare them against a completely different styled offense.
     
  12. RedBullFootball

    Apr 7, 2008
    Hasn't Felipe had quite a few looks at goal this season?
     
    iced1776 repped this.
  13. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I'd expect Dax to have 1-2 by now, and I'd expect better strike rates from Kljestan and Felipe. So lets call it 5-6 goals that I'm upset about. And considering the majority of our games have been decided by one goal or less, that's not insignificant.
     
  14. RedBullFootball

    Apr 7, 2008
    Random thought.

    I am hoping that Sasha has a little of that new player to the league syndrom and will improve. Maybe he just needs time to get used things like lots of players that come from other leagues (Theirry, Cahill).
     
  15. holiday

    holiday Member+

    Oct 16, 2007
    no, not really.
    the system is really a 4-2-3-1 with mc carty and felipe behind kljestan. it's not designed for mc carty or felipe to play offense. you may want to say felipe is positioned too far back but that's another story.
     
  16. RedBullFootball

    Apr 7, 2008
    Maybe you are just missing them because most look more like soft passes to the opposing keeper. Easy mistake to make.
     
  17. holiday

    holiday Member+

    Oct 16, 2007
    he had a couple at yankee stadium. and being brasilian he has a fairly loose application of positioning. but he's not supposed to be a goal scorer in this system, so it's pointless to say that's what has been missing. and as poorly as he's 'finished' when he's been there, frankly you wouldn't draw it up with him as offensive producer. statistically he's about one goal shy of his mls average pace. the system marsch uses is plenty explanation for that.
     
  18. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Felipe doesn't stay as far back as Dax does, Marsch gives him a lot more freedom to roam and he gets to the top of the box pretty regularly. Its not the same rigid dual-CDM system that Petke used at the end of last year with Alexander.

    So far Felipe's taken the second most shots on the team behind BWP, and 12 out of his 35 have been from inside the area. There's been another handful from just outside the top of the box with nobody in front of him. His positioning isn't the issue, its his finishing. Maybe my expectations for his finishing are just too high, but there have been so many times where you think it'd be harder to miss than score.
     
  19. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But all 3 are operating close to their career averages. How can you expect goals which they historically haven't scored?
     
  20. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He has. And there's the reason he's a CDM and not CM CAM or striker.

    Again...why we're carrying 3 starting quality CDMs is beyond me. Why they take the field all together is also beyond me.

    However, because they're all CDMs I'm not surprised by their lack of goal production AT ALL.
     
  21. RedBullFootball

    Apr 7, 2008
    #46 RedBullFootball, Jun 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
    Question... Felipe is on pace for historic average. That seems cut and dry. Fair enough.

    Now, let's suppose he somehow had 100 chances inside the box, managed the 1 goal and shanked the rest into the stands. Is this still good because he is matching his historical average?

    Don't other factors play-in besides simple averages?

    The guy has had MANY great chances to score. Averages and position aside, he should have done better than the one accidental goal he did score.
     
  22. holiday

    holiday Member+

    Oct 16, 2007
    in my opinion if kljestan is playing well there's very little reason for someone like felipe to be on the field, actually.
     
  23. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Dax is at zero so he's not averaging anything at the moment. Kljestan is playing closer to goal than he ever has in his career, figured that would bump his scoring rate up a bit. Felipe is surrounded by a better team than he ever had at Montreal, but I don't know if the quality of chances he got there were comparable to what he's seen this season, so that's a bit of blind hope on my part.

    Maybe I'm getting my hopes and realistic expectations confused on this one.
     
    kokoplus10 repped this.
  24. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have. He should have. Him and Dax should maybe have another 2 goals between them, but that doesn't solve the actual problem at hand.
     
  25. theENFORCER

    theENFORCER Member

    Apr 10, 2010
    NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see it unless they changed their playing style.

    To me their problem the whole season is that their formation is too flat, slow and defensive. Kreis keeps on playing Ballouchy on the right flank, another defensive midfielder on the left(Grabovy was it?), with a holding midfilder and mix diskerud as the #10. It's kinda like how Backe a few years back was playing Dax and Tainio on the flanks LOL

    They lack creativity, spark, pace, etc, and I think that's why we absolutely shreded that both matches as we are the opposite. Is pirlo and Lampard going to change that? Unless they insert some pacey wingers or add some pace I don't think anything will change.

    Edit; as for Felipe I remember him having a handful of shots being rejected by the post.
     

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