The Case For Messi and C. Ronaldo as Best Ever

Worse goals, the same amount of assists, league title which is not individual trophy, key passes in seasonal format and doing less dribbles, and more dives.

Again it's not close, when ever statistics seem to be identical, Messi has been the better player is a good rule of a thumb. Because he does more quality in the field in general.

 

Messi was a GOLDEN boy at Barca (raised treated and trained with Barca A B teams since 15)
CR7 was just a warrior (bought to ManU) and he did GREAT there (win UCL after 10years since the 1st great of Fergussons 1999)

yeah it's not close and FAIR for CR7
===================================

Now just for FUN:

Swap CR7 to play for Barca now, and move Messi to play for ManU now

See what messi will get as INDIVIDUAL "STATS" there?

 

Not in the competitive matches, and not for his club.

Nope. CR7 had actually more in 2007. Please show me the source..

Yes.

Because they don't exist in calender year format.. Btw, also in 2007-08 he had more although not twice as more like in 2006-07.

Source? I think this is true, but CR7 his success rate in 2006-07 was better.

No stats exist for that.

That is not a totally senseless call but CR7 played arguably a bit more as a winger in 2007, and was less wasteful with the ball, though more wasteful with shooting.

 

and FACT said you are right! (whatever "2007" season)

2006-07: CR7 (23goals+15ass/53games) > Messi 17gols+2ass/36games
2007-08: CR7 (42goals+7ass/49games ) >> Messi 16goals+13ass/40games)

 

I would be curious to see how Messi dealt with the physicality of the English Premier League week in and week out. At least Ronaldo has proven himself outside the Spanish League. Personally I like Messi more but that's a personal preference, I still would like to see him prove himself!

 

Seeing what a fanny Cronaldo is, quite well I think.

 

it won;t happen (or say <<<< 1% chance)

at least Messi did "prove" (oufff expose) with Argentina NT (as 2nd team from Barca)

 

Lol I think he would do well also.

 

I don't think it will happen either which is really unfortunate.

 

What physicality? Coutinho, Silva, Mata, Cazorla don't seem to be struggling, and Messi has better physical qualities e.g speed, balance, agility, strength.

 

Not to be that guy, but there are too many assumptions here.

1) That the EPL in the 2000s was the same as it is now
2) That those players wouldn't be doing better in La Liga now

 

Agree with that ... many things to be considered

 

True, numbers don't tell the story. That said, if you're a pure striker where your main contribution to your team is to score and you don't have better numbers than 2007 Messi (who wasn't the focal point of Barca's attack at that time, remember), then you have no argument for being better than Messi.

You can have better numbers and be worse than Messi, but not the other way around.

 

the "yeah he can manage Real Madrid in Bernabeu, but can he deliver against Stoke away in rain" argument, eh...

Truthfully, I don't think top players need to swap clubs to prove themselves. Is Maldini unproven? Playing for one club offers enough challenge. If anything, I think - be that Messi for my club or Iker for the rival - it's nice there are players who don't change clubs like socks. Cristiano jumping from top class club to top class was not necessary for him to prove himself, he could've proven himself just as well in ManU.

 

that only came from Messi fanATICS GOSH

Let me give you a clear example: Maradona had less number and still better than Messi

 

Also there's that staying with one club is sometimes harder. When the team wins everything and if players come bored and complacent, can success again be harder to achieve than moving from everything winning team that is going down, to a team that really wants to win everything. Freshness is also positive.

 

Barcelona refused to loan out young Messi to Glasgow Rangers or another British side exactly because of that. True and hard fact.
They were afraid that any club would let him play too often and too intense anyway, but British sides were seen as even more problematic.
They also didn't want that wrong and different impressions would misform him.

 

Thanks.

After being for 10 years the main guy, true.

"
For 35 years Don Julio appeared to
be the only constant in an everchanging
society. Messi flew in to
pay his respects, perhaps in honour
of the fact that Julio spotted him as a
youth and insisted he be played in an
international match so as to secure his
services before Spain called him up;
perhaps in acknowledgment that for
almost 10 years the underlying policy of
Argentina’s national squad has been to
appoint managers who allow Messi to
feel comfortable.
"
(Blizzard issue Fourteen, 2014)

And this includes appointing Maradona as national team manager.

 

18 year old Messi against Chelsea in Stamford Brige in worst pitch in a recent memory.



Seems to handle it pretty well, knee kicks, hard tackles, the pitch.

 

Who do you mean? Torres? I think you undersell him. He had a blistering start in the EPL back then. He ran past defenders like they weren't there. Some very, very impressive solo goals (without defender deflections..). He was really very good in 2007. I remember him as "unplayable" in 2007, but he's indeed a borderline name.

As others remarked, Luis Suarez needed time to adapt to Ajax, then time to adapt to Liverpool (as well as a better manager who used him better) and then also half a year at Barcelona.
Cristiano Ronaldo needed some time too in Manchester, and then a few months at Real Madrid..

 

Not to split hairs, but he didn't need half a year in Barca. He hasn't played half a year, and he has started to play in sync with the team some time ago. Not that he can't get better at it still.

And generally I agree, normally people take some time to get used to new work environments.

 

Example:

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892...rly-signed-messi-in-2005-says-former-chairman

His first training with Barcelona was at 15-08-2014. He has played his best football since January, February of this year so far. So about five, six months really.

It are again the dates providing the clue... ("napkin")

 

When we're defining how long a player needs to adapt, I think we should measure that time from the first match to the point where the level has started to be consistently normal or high (regarding to the expectations). As opposed to from start of training.

Not that this issue needs in-depth debate though lol.

 

agree = in liga
For example:
- it took Zidane 3 months (in his first Liga/Real)
it took Suarez 3,4 months in his first Liga/Barca
It took Riquelme longer than 1 season Barca ... (played off position)
it took Benzama > 1 season 2009 ...

- Some were instant successful like Roamrio 93, Ronaldo 97, Ronaldinho 2004 and CR7 2009....

- Some failure in liga Anelka 1999, Denilson 1998