Neymar will surpass Pele?

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by greatstriker11, Mar 20, 2015.

  1. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    100% opinions are pointless, if there's no logical argument for them.

    For example Maradona 86, Messi 14 and Kempes 78 were all "one man" teams in sense a team can be such, hence the statistical superiority. Brazil has always had stacked teams, all performing well, hence the team edge and individual statistical inferiority.
     
  2. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Zinho sucked at WC94 whereas Jorginho was brilliant. Watch the games indeed.
     
  3. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #328 JamesBH11, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
    I said you are not that good in number! PLEASE do not expose yourself

    Neymar 40goals/60games now (even young and top form) so
    Let's BLINDFOLD and say he will (???) score another 40gaols in next 60+games (assuming he will play that many) to beat 77goals (regardless Pele or Freidenrich ...)
    it meant MINIMUM requirement of 120+ games for Neymar = my pooint and ONLY FEW FW coudl have reached that = NONE in Brazil NT !

    FEW scenarios of SPECULATION:
    1- you guys ASSUME Neymar will only be same or betetr FORM in next 60+games?
    2- You guys ASSUME Neymar will strongly maintain his same GPG (0.75) until the END of his career?
    3- you guys ASSUME NOTHING happens in next 6,7 years of Brazil? who knows there might be another new PELE and he will REPLACE to put Neymar on bench?
     
  4. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Nothing is ever set in stone until it happens, nobody deals with absolutes... Firmino might surpass Pelé for all we know
     
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  5. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Like I said before hope you understand that you're one of the jokes on the forum. Like puertorican was before red carded.

    Have a nice day
     
  6. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    yes nothing is "absolute" in this world .... until it will (EVER?>) happen!

    Say ... 0.00001% that Neymar will or 0.000000000000000000001% that Firminho will ?

    I can agree with that possibility ... LOL

    as said: WAIT and SEE .... UNTIL it will "EVER" happen
    The rest is just PURE speculation!

    ===================================
    Like people still HOPE to see another Pele for last 50years?
    Like People still HOPE to see another Einstein for last 70years?
     
  7. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Personal insults are not the right answers to logical arguments, but never mind.
     
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  8. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    You're underestimating Neymars chances in a way that the math doesn't apply.

    60 games 42 goals outside of his prime

    So what you're expecting is he will play less games and score less during his prime years.

    Does that make sense? I think not.
     
  9. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #334 JamesBH11, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
    again NO MORE speculation! Until we'll see his "prime" then we'll com back here to talk !

    FACT said:
    1- great players like Pele, R9 or even Zico ... DID SCORE MORE from 17-24 for Brazil than from 25-29 OK?
    2- The reason Pele, R9 scored a lot for Brazil for they got HUGE GPG (0.8 to 1GPG) at younger age ... (Neymar got close but not as high with 0.75)
    3- Neymar was LUCKY as the only man to score gaols, while Pele Zico R9 or Roamrio had to FIGHT and SHARE with otehr greats!

    Like I said unless you guys HOPE to put Neymar in the <1% of some sort of "supernatural" - and IRONICALLY Pele, Zico R9 were all phenomenon >>> Neymar at same age now
     
  10. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    What's the ratio change? Do the math and show it
     
  11. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #3 - Another way to look at it is those players were "lucky" to play with great players that helped them score more. Better teams create better chances and good teammates can take attention off them. Neymar plays with much inferior players/teams and actually should make scoring tougher.
     
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  12. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It's about the synergy and tactics if a team has a edge. Names on paper have never meant anything. I feel that Neymar actually has a great team with Brazil, young and hungry generation full of talent, with some old guard to help.
     
  13. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Wrong assumption! May be correct elsewhere but NOT in Brazil NT legends!

    1-Pele Zico R9 R11 proved from different teams so your point is not counted -
    2- only fact remained:
    Pele had to share scoring with Vava Garrincha Tostao to Jiarzinho
    Romario and Ronaldo had to share with eachotehr and Bebeto, Edmundo
    Ronaldo )post injured) had to share with Bebeto , Rivaldo Adriano Fabiano

    Neymar now? Fred or Jo or Hulk? So NEYMAR is lucky to be the KEY man
     
  14. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    No more speculations... as you speculate he will not be able to make it.

    As I said it before, if we're just pointing out results I rather not read these posts and read a professional newspaper telling me the results.

    So to argue only after having results to base your arguments on is brainless. Even scientists start with a theory before getting into the results.
     
  15. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Two points:

    Of course, Neymar is going to be crucial for Brazil, moreso than other players in recent memory, considering how poor the starting 11 for that NT is. Quite the shame. I like Neymar insofar as he's the only one who really reminds us all of what Brazilian football is about. But he's going to have a tough time winning anything compared to the players that evolved in the golden generation.

    Secondly, stop comparing stats. Please. They carry a heavy recency bias for numerous reasons, namely that it is MUCH easier to score now than a decade ago.
     
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  16. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #341 JamesBH11, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
    BASED ON STATS and HISTORICAL DATA = FACT

    liek I said when will you guys understand the difference between
    1- SPECULATION
    ( YOU = I think Neymar will easily score >77goals based on what?)

    2- FACT (James) said
    2-1 Neymar will need > 120+ games (even150) to beat 77goals of Pele
    2-2 NONE (not even Pele) attackers in Brazil team EVER reached 100+games in last 100 years
    2-3 NONE (even Pele) could maintain a SAME GOOD GPG from 23 - to 29 (age)

    Based on those 3 FACTS (data historically) Neymar will have very very SLIM chance (<2%)
     
  17. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Theres number 43 !..
     
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  18. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    They have changed rules, balls and point systems to get more scoring!
     
  19. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    They have changed rules, balls and point systems to get more scoring!
     
    giles varley repped this.
  20. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    That's what I just said.

    If you have to wait for results to have an opinion, you don't have one.

    And you reply with results...

    Neymar 43
     
  21. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Yeah, the idea that Neymar could ever surpass Pele isn't one we can even entertain seriously. I never grew up to watch Pele unfortunately, so I can't comment too much about his footballing ability and will leave others who are more knowledgeable to do that for me.

    But Neymar will never come close to matching Pele's legacy.
     
  22. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    No, this is about if Neymar will score more than 77goals for Brazil sooner or later

    As I see ... Neymar will not even be close to TOP20 best Brazil all time = let along Pele as #1
     
  23. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    no I based on Historical data + Mathematics and Statistics Projection as MODEL to prediction
     
  24. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    The thread is about the goal tally, not the player itself

    Neymar 61 games 43 goals
    Pele 92 games 77 goals
     
  25. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    those are just offcial by FIFA!
    in actual games (small tourneys and some friendles) , Pele scored 92goals in Brazil shirts
     

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