MLS vs. NASL (vs. USL Pro)/ NYCFC vs. Cosmos (vs. Red Bulls)

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by Gaboo, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Matthew Johnson

    Sep 6, 2013
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Two words: Gillette Stadium.
     
  2. bremen24

    bremen24 Member

    Jul 12, 2014
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Which is also a soccer stadium.

    If you consider it not, I submit that just shows how worthless any public mandate to make a stadium a "soccer stadium" is, as plenty of people complain mightly about how bad CenturyLink is.

    edit: or really just how bad the crowds are in NE. Somehow if Gilette was packed for every Revs game I don't think it would be the joke that it is (well no more than CenturyLink)
     
  3. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not true at all. Gillette is pretty poor from an atmosphere perspective. I've been there for MLS Cup and US-Spain sellouts as well as several Patriots games and concerts. It just does not compete at all with CenturyLink, regardless of the crowd size. It's commonly talked about by Pats season ticket holders that they have the worst home field advantage in the NFL because the noise just goes flying out the open end, and the upper level is so far away and divided from the rest of the stadium by so far.
    Don't get me wrong, it's a very nice venue. Great amenities, but the atmosphere is horrible for any event.
     
    Matthew Johnson repped this.
  4. OpenCupFan

    OpenCupFan Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Not sure how you can see this in any other way. Academic study, one after another has come to the same conclusion.

    If you are proposing a new system of stadium building where you have "real" strings attached, then that is a change from the traditional tax payer pays everything and owner gets everything system of the past. But please be honest, team owners have fleeced cities (really tax payers) over and over in the past.

    Again, why is there no top flight basketball team in Seattle?
     
  5. Matthew Johnson

    Sep 6, 2013
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    #8530 Matthew Johnson, Nov 23, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
    It doesn't have a good soccer atmosphere b/c it wasn't built for soccer. Gillette Stadium has a ONE THIRD larger footprint compared to CenturyLink Field (CenturyLink has the smallest footprint of any NFL capable stadium built in the last 40 years). Instead of going out, CenturyLink was built up (more expensive). All fans are on top of the field, with great sightlines for the entire field. Soccer thrives in a more intimate atmosphere whereas for American football, sprawl is okay b/c most of the action occurs in the middle.

    Privately funded, with an owner who owns a soccer team, Gillette Stadium was not built for soccer. It's an American football stadium. CenturyLink, was required by law to be dual purpose so extra money was spent to ensure it would be a great soccer stadium. Which is why it is one of the best soccer venues in the nation.
     
  6. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, but my point was that Gillette is also widely considered a terrible venue for AMERICAN FOOTBALL as well (not to mention concerts and other events). In American Football, sprawl is not really ok from a fans perspective, but the NFL is focused on the TV audience. They can sell those luxury suites which put the upper level fans 27.84 miles away from the field and drunk Pats fans will still pay $300 for them because they can tag themselves at the Pats game on facebook. In fact, the brilliant Krafts have even decided to dig up even more of the lower level seats and replace them with sparse luxury suites!
    I'm not trying to argue your overall point, but I am suggesting you don't use Gillette in your case, because that was IMO the worst venue built this millennium.
     
  7. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And there you guy lowering to silly name calling but it's what I would expect from someone who uses the death of 96 people to try and make a point on the internet.

    more name calling I knew there was a reason I generally ignore you. I called you a hypocrite which you are. You say you hate it when people attest statements or beliefs to you which aren't true. Welp guess what you do daily have a on this board.

    Why the hell would anything MLS does make me or anyone else feel better about ourselves. You really put way to much value in MLS. I honestly can only speak for myself on this (something you really should try) but my life would be very little changed if MLS existed or not.

    I really don't know what they want I really don't care. I can only speak for myself, and I would like to see it because personally I think it's a better way to organize a league. I am sure once you read that you will grab your head, bash your head on the keyboard, and begin writing insults.

    Again not sure who they are but you quoted me and attributed these beliefs to me. And clearly you think you know what others think not sure why insist upon it. I could just as easily make generalizations about you being a Xenophobic small minded American, or a bitter old man who wants to make sure everyone knows that they followed soccer before it was cool. But I don't know if that's the case. Much more likely that we genuinely disagree about the future of the domestic game.

    And people like me keep giving solutions to those issues.
     
    USRufnex repped this.
  8. Matthew Johnson

    Sep 6, 2013
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    #8533 Matthew Johnson, Nov 24, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
    My point was that partially publicly funding a stadium can give the public more control over the stadium. I'm not sure what ol' boy took exception to, it seems pretty obvious.

    He then went on to claim that privately funding a large public stadium would make it MORE likely to be built for soccer. The obvious counter to that is Gillette, for while it may be for football, it is horrible for soccer.
     
  9. bremen24

    bremen24 Member

    Jul 12, 2014
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    No matter what you think Gillette was built for soccer. You can't just repeatedly ignore Foxboro telling you it sucks for american football too. And seriously anyone who thinks the government getting involves protects against boondoogles of bad design...
     
  10. Matthew Johnson

    Sep 6, 2013
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    You are just arguing for the sake of arguing now aren't you? YOU made the claim that privately funding a stadium would make it better for soccer. Gillette Stadium was privately funded is MUCH WORSE for soccer than partially publicly funded CenturyLink Field.

    I really can't believe you are trying to argue that having the public partially funding a project does not give the public more control over the project. Please explain how that works. Try to use complete sentences and actual logic.
     
  11. bremen24

    bremen24 Member

    Jul 12, 2014
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I made the claim that privately funded stadiums were more likely to accommodate soccer.

    Your only means of attacking that so far has been to claim that Gillette isn't designed with holding soccer matches in mind. It obviously is, even if it does suck at it.

    I never said private stadiums would be better. I don't know that they'd be "better" stadiums given that both are often designed by the future tenants. Paul Allen seems to get most of the credit for designing CenturyLink. Kraft gets the blame for Gillette.

    I also never said public funding doesn't give the public some control. I said public funding was more likely to build a stadium that couldn't also host soccer matches. In Seattle it obviously has, but this isn't going to be the case every time. I said that privately built stadiums would host soccer matches because the people investing would be keen to make their money back. This doesn't seem that hard to grasp. Billionaires are loath to lose money on anything, politicians generally have no qualms throwing money around greasing the wheels.
     
  12. revsrock

    revsrock Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    Boston Ma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I love the Revs and the Pats but I am sure happy my tax dollars arent going to fund a billionaire's stadium.
     
  13. Owen Thornhill

    Dec 22, 2012
    Club:
    Cork City
    NYCFC see to be trying to be the 3rd best supported pro team in NYC area.
     
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  14. 4four4

    4four4 Member+

    Nov 13, 2013
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    In 100 years.
     
  15. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    New Yorkers can't win. All three teams are huge jokes.
     
  16. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If by area he means city, maybe they can become 6th.

    I mean the NFL teams are outside the city, so

    The 2 MLB, 1 NHL and the 2 NBA are above, so maybe eventually NYCFC can become 6th best supported team with in the NYC area (city limits).
     
  17. The One X

    The One X Member+

    Sep 9, 2014
    Indiana
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    I am nearly 100% sure he meant specifically soccer.
     
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  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even then.

    I can't find the link, but in LA and NY teams from International leagues had higher popularity than the local clubs, LAG was something like 6th if I remember correctly, redbulls even lower.
     
  19. The One X

    The One X Member+

    Sep 9, 2014
    Indiana
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    I think his point was they would be less popular than the Cosmos.
     
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  20. Owen Thornhill

    Dec 22, 2012
    Club:
    Cork City
    In fairness Cosmo's have lost a lot of their support already but even if they have similar attendances, Cosmos will fill more of the stadium and look better. noting worse than a baseball stadium with less than 10k in it for a soccer game. This is why i think NYCFC will be a disaster. Orlando City have proven themselves at a lower level and will be successfull just like Portland/Montrael/Vancouver/Seattle etc.
     
  21. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Frank Lampard debacle shows MLS is far from reaching its goals

    http://mashable.com/2015/01/02/frank-lampard-mls/

    "This week, however, came a sobering reality check underscoring how far MLS has yet to go if it wants to be considered more than a home for American players who seek bigger paychecks than they can command abroad, as well as aging foreign stars easing their way toward retirement. That reality check came in the form of Frank Lampard."
     
  22. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    European clubs do this kind of thing to each other all the time. Blame the structure of the loan agreement, not the league's reputation.
     
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  23. OpenCupFan

    OpenCupFan Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    No, you blame the league for giving a "franchise" to another plastic team.

    Are yous till going to pretend the league didn't rush ManCity juniors in NY just to beat the Cosmos?
     
  24. T.M. Anthony

    T.M. Anthony Member+

    Jun 13, 2010
    Hudson Valley
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no, seriously, the cosmos don't mean sh!t in any of this.

    what is with cosmos fans and their pretentious view of that team? the world does not revolve around the cosmos, nobody in MLS or its two NY sides gives a crap about the D2 team in LI and they sure a shell don't make decisions based on the cosmos, hell, i'd sooner chalk the new tv deal as the biggest reason they were announced.

    Go on rooting for your team, be happy with 'em but know that MLS doesn't lose sleep over whatever your super awesome totes the same as pele team does. get over it.
     
  25. OpenCupFan

    OpenCupFan Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    uhm, you're wrong. MLS has chased Cosmos for decades - literally decades - and Cosmos turned down MLS.

    but keep up enjoying ChivasII.

    oh, and Cosmos' fans have a certain view of their team because the Cosmos are the greatest soccer club in the world!!!
     

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