Ajax: The Drive For Five

@DRB300:

I'd like to add to your comments too. I've always thought that Ajax only needed two key players - three if possible - to become serious contenders in Europe. I don't think we can be among the top four clubs in Europe, but we can definitely be up there among the quarter-finalists. At the very least, top 16. If the club had real European ambition, that is.

Am I dreaming, some might ask? Well then consider this: take away the top three key players at Barca, and suddenly you have a very beatable team. Anyone who saw this year's match at the Arena would agree that minus Messi & Neymar, we stood a very good chance of beating them. And then there's Luis Luis. Funny that, when one considers Suarez was once in our jersey and had already claimed he didin't want to leave A'dam because of his newborn child. Even his wife preferred to stay. We offloaded him due to the way-often cited need to cash in to profit from a player transfer. Was that bite on Bakkal sooo bad for the team? Look at Liverpool with and without the Uruguayan.

And what about Vertonghen? If as a club, we made some serious ambitions to take it to the next step, we could - and should - have made an attempt to keep him. Jan had mentioned that he would consider staying in the team - just like Eriksen - unfortunately there is this expectation that after 3 or so years, all players are expected to move on. In today's football environment, that is a serious error in our club philosophy, but that's just my hopeless opinion. (small note: I've never fancied Eriksen too much, but acknowledged that he was integral to the balance of the team. Knowing that we have Fischer & Anderson right behind, I'm more inclined to sell him, but that's for another detailed story for another day..)

Right there, we had three players - a forward striker, a midfield playmaker and sweeper/defender - all of whom we could have built around. That was a great tandem. But noooo, let's just cash them in, fatten up the bank balance and then what?

So we won 4 straight. Is this the only ambition for the club? I don't know Dutch, but there's a phrase in Indonesian that says "juara kampung" - that means champions of the village. It's a tongue-in-cheek criticism, but you get what I'm trying to say.

So we have all been reminded of how serious our finances were. I am still doubtful for the whole truth behind that. Being a shareholder and getting the annual financial doesn't tell you the whole story.

Sorry for the rant, guys, but I happen to put a whole lot of emphasis for this team to succeed in Europe. And it has been such a painful experience to watch all those oh-so-close matches but never close enough.

One final thought about PSG - they are probably not as weak as some suggests. Blanc obviously knew the archives heel of Ajax - let them have a great amount of possession and hit them at the counter. Still, the two matches were there for the taking, if we had that final key pass, or crisper finishing. The difference is subtle, but huge. Playing in Europe and being successful does require a certain degree of team cohesiveness, contuniouity and players with outstanding skills. Our rotating door policy will never get us any closer.

 

We all know Ajax doesn't make any effort to bring solid players. It's simple, among all the strikers and wingers,Ajax currently got, none of them is CL material for me. Fischer, Milik, Kishna, El Ghazi...Nice players but for the moment they are not ready. And when they will be ready they will leave Ajax. Same for the midfield, Andersen can follow Eriksen's path but Sererro and Klaassen won't make big transfers in my opinion.

PSV got strongest individual players and even De Boer agreed with that. Put a midfield Schaars-Wijnaldum-Guardado, with Depay-Luuk-Narsingh forward and you have a more dangerous team that Ajax for sure when it comes to the last 30 meters. Same last years with Mertens, Strootman, Lens...

But Ajax has a real philosophy, tactical sense...while PSV terribly lacked that during the last years. Put the Ajax tactical system with the PSV players and you will make CL 1/4 or EL finale. Unfortunetaly that will never happen cause Ajax will never make big transfers with the current staff.

Once again I'm not a specialist in economy but I know that the Eredivisie title brings around 10mo, a participation in CL brings about the same. You get 20mo from title + CL participation. After, the next rounds are just bonus of 500ko, 1mo...especially in EL and that's why Ajax never played seriously that competition. The TV rights in Holland are obviously ridiculous and not something to make serious money from.

Every year, Ajax makes more money with selling players than with the european competitions, so why to change ? When you can bring a young danish player for 100ko and sell him 15mo three years later, why to spend 8mo for Maher or Wijnaldum ? Since the Sulejmani and Cvitanich fiasco, Ajax didn't spend more than 5mo for a player.

So yeah, let's to be realistic, the only way to change things is that Ajax doesn't win the title anymore the next 2/3 years. Then they will be obliged to spend money like they did between 2007 and 2010.

 

Ajax financial Renaissance is something of the last years. It is a combination of bringing down the salary house and Frank de Boer making Ajax champs year after year, meaning CL money. As the Dutch nr 2 never makes it anymore after the play off round, all the money goes to Ajax. Before that, Ajax was in a lot of trouble. Suarez was not a choice anymore. He needed to be sold. If a club does not live within their means you get what they have at Rangers and Ajax was really financially going downhill at that time. Actually that was the whole problem with the setup. If you live off a system where the next sell needs to be a big one in order to keep the club running in a financial way, then players will always be sold when they have become successful. It is mandatory for the club to sell then as otherwise things spin out of control. The only way to get what you want, keeping a team longer together, is by paying players what the club can pay at maximum for loans. If a club lives within their means, then they do not have to sell, meaning they can say no to offers to keep the team together. That is what Ajax is doing now.

Are they though? No. Why was Blind sold? Did Ajax needed the money? No. Was he on a 1 year contract and resisting to to sign a new contract? No. He had 2 years on his contract and he was an Ajax man who would never start a rebellion if he would not be given his transfer. The first significant act of the new policy for me should have been to not sell Blind and say NO to United as a demonstration of the new strength that their policy have given them. It should have been used as a statement to salute a new era. Ajax does not have to sell. That communicates strength and makes clear to other clubs around the world that they better offer top Dollar if they want to come shopping at Ajax, or not even that. You keep automatism and experience in the team and who knows what could have happened in the CL games. Advancing from the group would have raised the profile of not only Blind, but also others and maybe that sum would be bigger at the end than the lost sum of money for the fact that Blind was sold on a 2 year contract.

Moreover, what about the fans and the ambitions of the club? Yeah it sucks for a player to not make a transfer that he really wants, but for the fans and general population it would also be nice to see Ajax/a Dutch club finally advance again. What is wrong with a bit of loyalty to a cause that concerns the club that nurtured you to where you are? Especially Blind who benefited a lot from Ajax looking the other way with so many mistakes in his first years.

The labeling from Frank de Boer of Ajax as a nurturing club has never sit well with me. It creates an atmosphere where letting go of players when an offer comes is oh so nice for them and should be celebrated. Stopping such a transfer is seen as not cool. Well, the interest of the people in charge should be to think about the interest of the club and if that means to say no to a transfer and put your foot between a closing door, then that is what is needed. The finances of the club are structured in such a way that players do not have to be sold, but the mentality is still one of selling if it is possible as it is so nice for the player and the club brings players up for others. That is wrong to me. I want to see alignment between financial restructuring that has taken place and transfer policy if it concerns players that do not have to be sold (2 year contract or longer), who would keep the automatism and maturity level of a team up to a higher level than when selling him.

So my story is more focused on the selling side of things. Buying players is hard as anything that is really good, wants to make more than a million a year. I wonder what is possible with paying sign money though. A one time sum of money so that the loan does not become so skewed compared to the rest. Then again, that is a bit of a trick that will maybe still give problems in the dressing room.

Anyway, I am pro a healthy financial policy and I am proud that Netherlands and Dutch clubs are keeping things real, unlike many other clubs in Europe. However I am wondering if Ajax can not finally make a statement and just not sell a player as they want to go for the max in the following year. Blind should have been the first player where the automatic selling line of thinking takes a stop.

 

I think people are still far too harsh on Klaassen. He's been the best player for Ajax this season and it's not even close. Harping on his creativity while he leads the Eredivisie in assists and 6th in shooting chances created (and is 1st among central midfielders) while also being one of the best off-the-ball midfielders bringing tenacity and leadership. On top of this he has a nose for goal and likes to get into the box.

Anyway I think Kishna has really started to look a lot more confident and is coming into his own again. We'll see if he can find consistency in this, but it's encouraging because there's a lot of potential there.

 

Some great points there DRB300!

what i don't get is how Cruyff's revolution is going to address the selling of ajax players. Cruyff mentions his plan ideally will take Ajax to the final 8 in UCL on a consistent basis. I believe if ajax could advance to final 8 just once, players would attract alot of attention from foreigh clubs. Will Ajax sell and if not, how are they going to retain their players? Is retaining players even part of the equation to consistently advance to final 8? Cruyff never mentions how they will deal with this.

rather much of the stuff i read about cruyff's plan is change the factory style and focus more on individual creativity and improvisation with the Bergkamps and Jonks to tutor the players. Thats great and all but without addressing the issue of selling ajax players, I doubt Ajax could consistently make it to final 8. Does this imply Cruyff's plan is to consistently develop creative Bergkamps such that as soon as 1 is sold, they'd have a replacement just as good as the last one? that is unrealistic in my opinion

 

Good intervention. I said in the past I would revisit his creativity stats and they are actually holding up from what we have seen from him at the start of the season:




Also look at the through ball rate, also the highest. Creativity is good if we look at the stats and even the best in Eredivisie for his team. It is a ratio, so he is not benefiting from playing every game. As mentioned, his number of assists is also the highest of the team.


In CL it is more modest:




It's kind of telling that no player has any stats for through balls in the CL at Ajax side.


Anyway we can not say Klaassen is not developing this weaker side of him. Off ball he is great, on ball he is doing work now as well. I do maintain that he does not have an own action really. I would love to see a player on his position to also have the ability to really dribble past players and create a man more situation. However he is becoming more complete as we speak and I agree he is kind of the best player at Ajax at the moment if you consider that he does stand up against the hardest teams and Schöne is kind of not. Schöne did have a big value in Eredivisie games of maybe lower status, but that still represent 3 points and are very important as well.

Klaassen is surprising us, that is for sure.

 

Nice for Ajax that Klaassn has been contracted until 2018. ​

 

Bad luck and a lack of quality in the forward line has been Ajax's undoing in recent years. Given the clubs limited revenue streams the only way to improve is to wait for a solid core of youth players and then invest in a few specific mature players so the team can compete for a few years. Then sell off and rebuilt.

Brute forcing the CL with money is not possible for teams outside of the top leagues due to FFP. Even a team like Juventus in the 4th or 5th strongest league with well over 250m Euro revenue (more than double that of Ajax) can't compete for the CL anymore.

Off course everything is for grabs if or when the top leagues are broken open but that is another topic entirely.

 

This is so wrong on so many levels.

The other Liga teams should just boycott the entire season and let Barca and Madrid play each other for the title every week

 

What kind of special talent is Nouri? What do people see as his upward limit? Seems to really be an incredible talent.

 

Like all of you I also think that Its very frustating to see Ajax fall year after year in the CL, the truth is that they need a strong youth set up and they seems to have it, but not all the times I think. The competition that could give us some comparisson about the Ajax youth policy is the Uefa youth league, last year Ajax got beaten by Barca (the first champions) and Milan so very dissapointing too, we saw that the likes of Menig or Acolatse wasnt so great talents.
This year is very different with Ajax dominating Barca in the both games they played, we are seeing that Nouri, Beek, Mirani, etc are really great talents.
The questions is: When these kids plays in the full Ajax side, how much it will takes Ajax board to sell these kids, and most of all, How much it will take to replace these kids with the same quality youth players? I thinks this cicle is not sustentable by any means.
It could work if Ajax can manage to retain his youth players 5 or 6 years, I mean selling them with 25 26 years old in order to get some good revenue.
Lets see what happens, but if the big clubs keep stealing Ajax teens like Mensah, Peeters or Addekanye I dont know if this growth model could work...

 

@Orange 14
You see my point here, glad to see Ajax A1 beat PSG, just great to hear that, I will catch up some highlights later.
Cheers!

 

Maybe not Barca, but against PSG it was closer than people realize. Blind would have strengthen the team with a few percentages and it might have tipped it. This is a guessing game, but for me it is clear as day, that selling automatism and experience in a vital position like DM made Ajax a bit weaker.

I think the answer to this question is simply yes. Ajax could and should have done better in the EL. About your EL revenue point. I think it is dangerous to throw the EL competition. Look at FC Twente, look at the Italian league. If teams start toy around with roots of the competitive mindset and the aspiration to win every game, something under the surface happens that is not really quantifiable, but I think it is there. I think it damages a club or competition more than people realize. It eats away from a top sport culture and climate. To grow as a player and club you need to buy into the idea to reach your own level every game you play. It's an extra challenge the EL, but rather than thinking about how it depletes the energy levels for the weekend games in the national competition, asking how to deal with that nevertheless creates real growth and can strengthen and harden players.

I think the left back position has been one of the major undoings for Ajax in recent years. As a result of understaffing on that position the DM position was toyed with all the time. Both Anita and Blind have been shuffled around more than was good for the club and the results. I remember Celtic away were this was in play again IIRC and I am convinced such a game was winnable with Blind in DM. After Blind started to play on DM, things started running smoothly again and also resulted in the excellent game and victory against Barca at home. Blind was great that game. Anita moving to DM lead to countless of consecutive wins and a great end race adding 3 points after 3 points. Had the left back position not been understaffed, DM would have had the DM it needed all the time and Ajax would have done much better in Europe also. I am going as far that last season this was the difference between advancing from the CL and not.

 

Of course no one is expecting Ajax to buy big players from big leagues. But still, they have been doing absolutly awful for years now when it comes to buying. How could a club like Ajax put players such as Lukoki, Sana and Ebecilio in CL lines-up against Dortmund, Real...? Those players are Heracles or ADO material, not more. Ebecilio couldn't even make it at Metalurg Donestk. And the staff knows very well the level of these players.

After the season 2011-2012, where Narsingh finished with the best assists rate in Eredivisie, Ajax found a way to let him to leave for PSV (apparently only because of 500ko more they wouldn't want to pay) and brought Sana. A player that wasn't even known in the poor swedish league and in the youth swedish teams. That was a total lack of respect to the fans.

I think everyone expects Ajax to build a team with the best players of the league, as they are the champions and have the money for. But they don't do it, PSV and Twente tried to do it, not Ajax. Twente brought Fer and Tadic, PSV Wijnaldum, Strootman, Mertens, Maher...Who is the last top eredivisie player that Ajax bought ? It was Janssen and that was because he was transfer free.

There is a gap between playing europe with players such as Mertens and Tadic...and playing with Sana or Lukoki. That's simply why Ajax is unable to score everytime in CL, pure lack of quality that is related to the club bad policy of transfers.

 

from what i've read, Ajax is not going that route and as an ajax fan i agree that shouldn't be buying eredivisie "stars". they've made mistakes in the past - El Ham, Sulimani etc and they are now looking for ways to be financially stable.

In terms of narrowing the gap in player quality, I believe Cruyff's plan to achieve this is developing their own young players with changes to their training. what is different now and back then is that they are scraping the whole Van Gaal system and focusing more individual creativity + improvisation and more one on one training with Bergkamp and jonk. I'm not expecting immediate results from the revolution but ideally this is supposed to put ajax to consistently finish in the final 8 of UCL. we'll just have to be patient to see how this pans out.

 

1) You're touching a sensible point. Sana has been capped with Sweden because he played with Ajax, he didn't come to Ajax because he was playing with the swedish NT. + he has been called only two times, it was enough for them to see that he was not good. The same for many danish players of Ajax. The thing is that Ajax still have a good reputation and label, so of course teams like Sweden or Denmark would welcome an Ajax starting player.
But Sana was really no one in Sweden, a guy like Rasmus Elm had already a great reputation before to come in Holland, Sana nothing.

2) I honestly wouldn't put El Hamdaoui next to Sulejmani and Siggy. El Hamdaoui scored two important goals in CL against Dynamo Kyiv and Milan. I believe Ajax could have scored against Lyon three years ago and against Milan last year with a striker like him. Not a top level player for sure, but more than decent. Fiorentina and italian league are too tactical for him, he should have left to Germany. I think he could do better than Luuk and Dost there.
Sulejmani was a big big big failed plan by Ajax. How can you put 16,5mo on an Heereveen player just because he scored 15 goals on 34 games ? + half of his goals were as sub. The reality is that Ajax heard that Chelsea was interested in him, and they thought that they would sell it for 30mo or more just two years after. That was obviously not a sportive transfer, but just a plan to make quick money.

3 ) Once again, PSV and Twente are no Ajax. Ajax has a base, a philosophy, a tactic. Ajax is a team that can have more ball possession than most of the big teams in europe. Even if the CB's are Van der Hoorn and Denswil. While the PSV of last years would still have lost to Odessa even if having Ronaldo and Messi together.
That's the biggest problem, I want to see what Ajax would have done in CL with Tadic and Mertens in place of Lukoki and Sana.

You say that not bringing Maher was a good idea...Ok I'm not a fan of him neither, but are Serrero and Zimling better players globally ? No. Ajax really lacks individual quality on every line.

 

For some strange reason De Boer prioritized the leftback position over DM but Ajax's field play hasn't been the biggest issue. Quite often it was on par or better than the opponent. However when a team is far less clinical in front of the goal than the opponent you will lose a lot of winnable games. I think the PSG match was good example of this problem. Ajax had the best of the game but needs far too many chances to score goals. A team like PSG can be a mediocre collective but still rely on their individual quality upfront to win matches. Blanc correctly described Ajax as a team that plays good positional football but is rather harmless in the final third. A club has a problem when the most succesful striker in the last 5 seasons is a limited midfielder like Siem de Jong.