Constructive I'm all for a promotion/relegation system, but realize it will never happen. That said, we need a way to address the growth of the league while also acknowledging that we didn't invent this sport and will have to adhere to the way other nations do things if we want to continue to have full inclusion.
In view of the trouble Mexico had from qualifying in CONCACAF, I guess this means that you think Japan and South Korea are better than Mexico. Please tell me you didn't just cite results from pre-season.
The Anglophonic world, perhaps. If results are what matters, La Liga dominated last year and has consistently been better both the UEFA and Europa. And this is despite the EPL cherry picking the top players of the Spanish clubs (besides Barca and Real). I would agree that MLS, and all US Soccer, emulates the British way too much. I disagree on the evils of money. Spanish, Dutch and Brazilian clubs don't develop talent out of benevolence, they sell these players on and make big dollars. Your observation of "right now" is the key; player development takes a long time, is as uncertain process, and requires a base of younger players to choose from. In addition, to be fair to the MLS clubs, the leagues isn't structured so that a team could do a Spanish cantera style of promoting from within. There are way too many rules that are intended to promote "fairness" in inherently unfair markets.
Well if teams are going to have off years like Mexico did in 2013, then yes that would create problems. But that is the point AFC and Concacaf are so weak that even playing like shit doesn't stop the top teams from making the world cup. I did say the only place to really test the leagues against each other is the FIFACWC. But no mls club has played in it. The pre season tournaments are the only thing we have that is why I used them as a by the way.
The fact of the matter is that CONCACAF qualifying is often uncomfortable. In 2009, neither the US nor Mexico had an easy time in the Hex -- and that cycle, the 4th place team played off against Uruguay rather than New Zealand. Even the semifinal round can be tricky. In 2012, the US needed to come from behind on the last day against Guatemala to avoid elimination, and in 2008, Mexico only advanced on goal difference. I'm sure you'll argue that all of those US and Mexico teams played like crap, but maybe you should give their opponents a wee bit of credit?
Maybe you've had this discussion on here ad nauseum. I haven't, so I don't remotely know what you're driving at. That FIFA is going to be pains in our backsides if we don't reconcile how we do things with how other leagues do? That the size of the league at some point needs to be controlled? The idea of two 20 team top flights that are separate in league play outside of playoffs and cup play? Forgive me for not picking up on the psychic waves you're sending out over the Internet. As much as people may dislike the way other leagues do things, why do we always seem to feel an incessant need to Americanize this sport and run it the way that our other leagues run things?
I find myself losing some interest in MLS because of things that bother me. There should be promotion/relegation system The draft should be changed to allow players some choice in where they will play. Le Bron had plenty time to play out his rookie contract with the Cavs and still have a career with Heat. In USA soccer a player can come put of college at 22, get stuck in a bad club with poor coaching and idiot teammates for three years and see his opportunity at international football totally crushed. In fact, his team might even like that. MLS is too stuck into a system that seeks to ostensively protect owners at the expense of good product.
I ask myself this as well. In the middle of summer in LA we see broadcasters sitting outside in lawnchairs in suits. Why? Because that is the ESPN way of broadcasting winter sports, duh. The broadcasters never sat down to ask themselves howsoccer should be broadcast. Instead they asked themselves how they superimpose basketball and tackle on soccer as if we scored points every minute. They play the anthem before every game because that is how every other sport does it. How about being the first in sport to offer variety? When MLS played the first openly gay player the other sports got nervous. Now San Antonio hired the first female coach for a men's team. Funny how the only thing that bothered the other sports was the thing MLs did that was different. They have a draft that relegates the best college player to the worst team in a sport where the ages of 22-24 are the most crucial years of his career. They badly need more high soccer IQ middle level players to improve the product but are stuck on signing Lampards and Villas and Kaka's as if we were still in the age of Beckham while guys like Diskerud have a hard time finding a club. ( guys like Valeri and recent signing Garcia at Quakes are what we need more of). They keep bringing in NFL guys as owners who are just going to exploit soccer and now they want to bring in NBA money. Those guys will never do anything new or take any risks. I've seen this movie before and It's borrrrrring.
To me... US soccer is still a teenager trying to find out who he is. In other words, we are still asking ourselves, who are we as a soccer nation? And we have a very split crowd. Basically, we have two very polar opposite audiences, that need to learn to live in harmony. For instance, one group really wants to have the exact English model here in America... From no team names (you get FC or United... Don't dare stray from this), calling soccer football, and promotion/relegation. To be as fair as I can be, it makes sense how some fans became this way because for so long English soccer was the only game in town because MLS did not have a national footprint. On the other hand, a lot of fans are saying let's stick with the American sports model... And also to be fair, this makes sense as we do live in America, and this is part of our sporting culture. Also, I'll point to the main ember that has kept soccer alive in this country is the US national team. The way fans are able to root for their country is unseen in other sports, and it has translated into interest in MLS. The answer here is to find the happy balance. Things can get too polarizing, and one of the fan groups are going to tune out. For instance, nothing makes me want to watch a team less than a no name team. And to be honest, as excited as I am for MLS, I will be deeply disappointed if we go with anything related to Atlanta FC. Or, on the other hand, we can go back and Americanize the sport too much by changing its fundamental rules... That weird overtime shoot out, clock counting down, calling soccer positions by other sports name (a deeplying midfielder is not a quarterback). As far as the development of our identity we need to learn to embrace both the American culture and also be able to ensure that the game is still the same. Mainly, we need to be ok with giving teams nicknames because there is nothing fundamentally wrong with doing it but it is completely in contrast to American sports, we need to be ok not having promotion/relegation because that is not in the best interest of our top clubs, as a result we need to be ok with expansion, play-offs, and conferences as the game is still the same. That said, we need to be ok looking at the ways other countries are developing players through academies, and so forth. In short, I'm ok with looking to Europe to improve the quality of our league, but when I look to Europe, it is nothing more than a suggestion. Ultimately, I'm going to say go with what works here as I believe that we could actually have a lot to offer the soccer world and American sports, and could actually be the beacon for success instead of the little toady suck-up who will do anything to be like big brother. In closing, this is my model for that: Team names: For new teams, stick with singular, uniting sounding names like Galaxy, Union, Dynamo, etc. Add on FC if you like, but stay away from having no name teams or names that would be too easily confused with a European counterpart. For example, the only Inter I know, is Inter Milan. League structure: We are going to have to go with conferences and play offs, but I wouldn't advise going back to the dark days of MLS, and have only wins and losses. I wouldn't change anything really right now except for accommodating new franchises. Game day experience: As a combat veteran, it's offensive to me for someone to argue that we shouldn't say the anthem. Forgive me, but forget you, if you don't want to sing it, don't, but some of the best memories i have are showing my appreciation to be able to watch the game that day. For what it's worth, i've got no problem with the Canadian anthem being played for the games in Canada... Don't expect me to put my hand over my heart, but i can sit quiet and be respectful. Rant aside, I like how soccer is different in that it needs the experience to fit in with the fast paced sport. So, singing, changing, and drums are great and a lot of fun. That said, don't be afraid of tailgating either. Ultimately, people should want to come to the games and feel like they are going to be entertain... And for soccer, the good thing, is that the energy from the crowd is the entertainment where unlike baseball there needs to be a million side attractions. Player development and quality improvement: See my first post.
Great Post. Nothing irritates me more than people who want what they want without thought as to why others are doing what they are doing. It comes across to me as nitpicky, stubborn, and quite frankly cognitively deficient. It really bothers someone to the level of absurdity because they do a pregame show from the sideline in suits??!!! That we sing the national anthem before the game???? The draft, signing of Lampard, Kaka, or Villa is cumbersome to them. He really doesn't explain that whole gay player, women's coach thing. While I do agree there should be some concern that non-soccer people are using soccer without passion for the game but then again how is that boring and you're unable to watch the games. Its like some want a circus and sizzle to then be able to watch a soccer game.
I agree with this. I'm not against having some American aspects to the league. It's our league, it should reflect our country. But I disagree with unnecessary changes. Rule changes should absolutely be out. The game is the game. It should be played the same way in England as it is in Brazil as it is in the USA as it is in Ghana as it is in international or domestic play. I don't mind adding FC. After all, it is a "football club". I have no issue with nicknames. If a nickname will unite the fans behind the club, great. The one that really gets me though is Real Salt Lake. What's royal about Salt Lake? Is Utah secretly a kingdom? And a Spanish one at that? I'd love promotion/relegation, mainly because I think it allows for more expansion of the sport. One of the things I love about the culture of this sport, especially in other countries, is how local teams get the chance to compete with major teams. What makes the FA Cup and other similar competitions so wonderful is bringing together such a diverse group of teams and giving the little guy that shot. The only place we really have that in American sports is March Madness. I understand that we'll never have a true promotion system here. I'd love it, but it's not going to happen, I can accept that. But I would like to see more local teams and done in a way that is supported by MLS. If that means farming out academies to cities and towns that won't likely get a full franchise, so be it. If it means developing a minor league system that is actually cohesive and involved with the upper division, also a good idea. Either way, a true continental cup and an organized system will serve us better in the long term than upstart leagues with teams appearing and folding left and right and no real top-to-bottom support structure. We are still finding our way. But if we're going to grow up, we need to get an organized system in place, and I think considering the seeming boom in popularity the sport is going through, now is the perfect time for that to be addressed.
What are you looking for when you want "full inclusion"? That's pretty ambiguous. EDIT: And more broadly, you keep talking about how you think it's important for the MLS to conform to European standards in order to get FIFA's approval. What do you mean by "FIFA" (Sepp Blatter? executive committee? foreign FA leaders?), and what benefits do you think the MLS and US Soccer more generally would reap?
@backpackpenguin The biggest benefit for me is hosting the World Cup. I think we will get 2026, but it wouldn't be a shock to see FIFA hand it to Morocco or even Canada. Blatter hasn't been shy about criticizing our league, and whether we like it or not his word carries weight. As far as who else composes FIFA, I think looking at the voters that took bribes to assure Qatar got 2022 are all worth considering and if we want to be a part of the organization and have any hope of helping to bring about transparency in the future we need to be on their good side. And when it comes to foreign FA leaders, again, you want them to feel comfortable when dealing with your league. The more our league aligns with theirs (especially when it comes to transfer windows, which have been a huge difficulty for us) the more easily we will be able to participate as a member of the global football community rather than a mistimed outsider.
One thing that I think is really helpful is the seemingly increase in stability for coaches... Also, that the league is bringing in former players into the coaching staff. For instance, I appreciate that when someone thinks: LA Galaxy... Arena's team SKC.... Vermes' team Houston... Kinnear's team Portland... Porter's team Seattle... Schmid's team DC.... Olsen's team Point being is that when coaches have some stability, I believe they are more free to help develop their team.
Dots are connecting... http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/forty-eight-players-called-into-u14-bnt_aid33372 ...Club Soccer to MLS Academy to US BNT.
I think it may. Soccer can score big in smaller towns that are not NFL/NBA/MLB size if the teams have a chance at the top division, unlike in baseball where AAA is AAA for life. If those smaller towns dont have the chance of promotion it would make more sense to go the AFL/ABA route and compete directly with MLS with big splashy Joe Namath type signings. When a merger looks like it will be forced, will we really have a 50 team league? Sounds unlikely. One option will be promotion relegation.
Right that's not the point though. The point is that nobody is going to buy into a league where relegation (and all the loss of revenue it would bring) is a realistic threat. That and logistically it just isn't viable because the infrastructure (stadiums, etc) isn't in place.
I'm not one to say it will NEVER happen because I believe in never say never, but it shouldn't be forced and we are a long, long ways away from it. For it to happen, the league first needs to be very stable with AT LEAST 32 teams... And then have a very, very stable lower division... All with revenue controlled stadiums, multi million dollar budgets, and academies. And then, maybe, mayyyyyybe, it could work. But it is going to have to happen kicking and screaming and not be forced.
Much of the Florida panhandle isn't much farther from Houston than it is Atlanta or Orlando (the drive is about an hour difference from Fort Walton Beach (middle of the panhandle), Pensacola is almost dead equal to all three. If people from Panama City west to Mobile weren't driving to the Dynamo the liklihood of them doing so to Atlanta and Orlando is just as thin without the underlying cultural changes that are discussed ad naseum on the forum.
They do everywhere else, why not in US? Actually I think we would get rid of the slackers which would be good for the final product and eventual success.
Which is why we have Chivas USA. Huge market, lemon product. The tv execs must be ecstatic. They did their job, pushed for that market over the franchise in a place like Green Bay. Brilliant.