Perhaps that means they might be importing some more Dutch players into EPL withing the next years. EPL will go Dutch the same way Barca went Dutch in the past. @PuckVanHeel @comme ?
The press conferences will be a joy. LvG really says whatever is on his mind. And then their accents... I can't wait for the new season to start (also so MANY title contenders). @comme , yes. Club football is a better tool to check quality. Bigger sample and everyone plays against everyone.
Who knows. Many people have made the point Van Gaal/Cruyff etc. have 'created' Dutch football but also destroyed it by exporting it to other countries and club teams. Kind of true. By the way, isn't it funny that the directness in language isn't translated in the football? Historically speaking that is. OPTA showed a stat showing how only Colombia and Spain have historically registered similar possession statistics over all World Cups. Of course, Spain has taken it a step further and back in the 70s the Dutch NT was literally booed by opposition for playing at possession at times, because it was seen as unsportsmanlike conduct. In the 1977 game against England, the Wembley crowd and commentators derided the possession play after 2-0 up. It was seen as bad, and cynical behavior. Bill Shankly also made once a famous quote that no team was as defensive as 1960s/1970s Ajax. The English escape route Regardless of whether it's true; their media, EPL and fans possess an interest in pimping up the Champions League.
Wise point on Club vs International I said this many times before here on BS And also I think Club career is a better representation of a players overall quality check.
Well traditions and taboo's are meant to be broken someday to make way for progress. On hindsight modern football has it's roots deeply engraved in Dutch influences. Ajax had played a much bigger role in shaping modern football then what most people might think/know/perceive.
Maradona in 1990 was more involved in the game and did not lose the ball as often. Also, Maradona was widely accused of diving in 1990, of drawing free kicks in an unfair manner, but compared to that 'diving' Messi should be banned for 4 months. For disgracing the game.
I found it. After been beaten with 5-1 Shankly said "We cannot play these defensive football sides." Some weeks later also "I've never seen a team so defensive." Despite having more of the ball and possession.
It can be that they simply over-perform but Van Gaal his successor Hiddink said before the semi-final (I doubt whether he thinks different after it) that he saw players becoming better and more mature during the World Cup. Mistakes that have been made at the Eredivisie by involved players are suddenly not made. He thinks some of them have shown progression and gained valuable luggage. The negative side is of course that those players need to learn during an important tournament (trial and error during a WC), and can't do earlier (in UCL etc.), but it is the way it is. I hope some of the attacking talents can replace Robben in due time. Maybe we'll also make some more 'friends' then
I see what you mean here. But with the change in, or lets say implementation of, a new philosophy (the game of possession) in the 60's/70's the Dutch have laid down a foundation for all to follow. It might not be perfect but it works overall. Spain lost while playing a "tiki taka" most opponent expected to come. They plaid this formula for so long it was a matter of time before people started figuring out how to tackle it. Perhaps DelBosque's formula lifetime has expired? The lack of cohesion between their main striker Costa and the rest of the team got do it. Like I have told @leadleader in one of my replies, the game of possession is a broad generic umbrella term enclosing many derivatives or configurations. Tiki Taka (one of them) is just one model improved and made popular by Johan Cruyff. But there are many other forms of "game of possession" played by a few teams in this WC14. Chile for example played a form of possession that worked for them. It wasn't tiki taka but it worked for them. Tiki taka is the one I do not fancy myself. Even though I am more influenced in my own philosophy by Cruyff's tactics in Dream Team era due to my age, I rather play a more open game allowing more space for creativity of the players to improve and adapt on pitch as the situation demands. There is so much we can learn from the mistakes of Spain, Brazil, Argentina and Holland so far in this WC. In the end, football is closer to the game of "Poker" then we think. "Luck" or the lack of it is an innate part of success. All a coach can do is to find the best formula of tactics to reduce and limit the risk and enhancing the chance for scoring as best as he can. And in that sense a coach is like a "poker" player. At the very moment the game kick starts and the clock is running, the cards are drawn and there is no way back but going forward. Either you lose or win. Every game brings new surprises. The ball is round and as volatile as the poker cards are blind. There is a lot more goodness we can get from the weaknesses observed from the defeated teams than from the strengths shown by the best teams. Observation is an art An art every coach must master and in this WC, Van Gaal has shown to have understood this more then any other coach.
Considering ages and also health influences. Our forwards have done very well. Robben diver or not, came to fight for his country. In the end, they all, and let me stress here, all of 'em, have dived during this tournament. Robben, Van Persie, Messi, Neymar, all of them have dived at one point or another. Robben is just the scapegoat in the media's eyes to fuel a much controversial topic that sells and keeps the audience coming for more. But on Van Gaal's observation on the Dutch progress overall I agree! Having said that, it is for the best that Van Persie, Sneijder and Kuyt consider this WC as their last. We cannot continue with Kuyt for sure. He'd lost too many balls either taken from him or due to passes that came off short. Also I think he lacks too much pace for a left winger. Van Persie caught a "cold" a few days before and was certainly unfit. But to be honest after his first two outstanding games in group stages he never shown any moment of performance above average. Sneiders was ok in some moments to the extend that he kind of steered the game in the second half vs Argentina. But relative to the past and certainly in comparison to his performance in WC10, he is losing sharpness in both short as long passes end up losing the ball in some simple minor challenges. He needs to leave. There are a few more orange players I would leave out for the next endeavours in the future. But the base of Oranje is perfect in my opinion. I hope we can keep Robben for at least a few more years to lead by experience the new breed of young inexperienced Dutch players who will be maturing to eventually take over when Robben leaves. I am very proud of Memphis Depay for his contributions. He has a bright future as a winger in Dutch NT and we will see him coming back in 2018. he has shown his capabilities to PSV and now he'd done it on the biggest stage when Oranje needed him the most. @leadleader @comme @giles varley @Roofvogel @Edhardy
From the Guardian Apparently Demichelis confused Robben with Sneijder. Few fantastic comments too, haha, by the British readers:
Indeed, constructing a "villain" makes a good sports story. They only need to have someone with the 'right' background (or to put it better: not pick someone that offends large masses). Hence Robben and C. Ronaldo often cast in that way.
I agree! The Dutch, Chile, Costa Rica, Colombia (and Germany only in the match vs Brazil ) were the entertainers of this WC. Without them this WC would have ended dull!
I know it's besides the point but on Belgian TV the 'pundit' (a Dutchman) said: "The best man on the pitch is Ron Vlaar. And Ron Vlaar is no Franz Beckenbauer." http://m.parool.nl/parool/m/nl/3100...st-gebald.dhtml?originatingNavigationItemId=1
By your rationale that means that Robben would have been banned for life altogether. For murdering the game. Also, no way was Maradona 1990 "more involved" than Messi 2014: sorry, but that just isn't true at all. Maradona vs Cameroon vs Romania vs Italy vs West Germany vs Brazil disappeared for large spells of the game. If anything, yes Messi is very similar to Maradona in 1990, but perhaps slightly better when you consider his goals in addition to the fact that he has not once, not in any game he has played so far in this tournament, failed to create a clear goal scoring chance out of nothing. Let's be honest here, it was Messi who scored the important goals in the group stage so that Argentina could finish their group in first place. How many goals did Maradona scored at the 1990 World Cup again? None. Not one. And not only that, but Claudio Caniggia was a much bigger factor than any out of Higuain, Aguero, Di Maria, have been so far in this tournament. Honestly: yes!! absolutely, Maradona 1986 is by far the best individual performance by a player as far as the World Cup goes; but again, absolutely not, Maradona 1990 was not better than Messi 2014. Your hatred for Messi is quite an impressive (note: and amusing) thing to behold. That being said, Maradna was playing with an injury at the 1990 World Cup, whilst Messi is presumably fit at this World Cup. But still, I'm talking about their performances in terms of how good the actual performance is, not about their performances in terms of how well they did considering their injuries.
The only difference between Cristiano Ronaldo and Robben is that while Robben will luagh back at the media with his sardonic smile, Cristiano will moan/cry/whinge/whine and demand more money or threaten with leaving. Robben is typical Dutch, he has a tough skin! Robben?.....i like the guy!
Have Robben his direct opponents also seen cards for very minor touches? Not even with the arms or legs but with the body. The answer is no (not even Marquez). Unlike your impression, he hadn't it easy. In the rare cases a card was pulled, it was for serious contact (heck, also that 'death tackle' where a Mexican defender broke his leg as a result of his uncontrolled move wasn't a card). Similar for your repeated hatred during this complete tournament against Robben. Even claiming, no joke, that at neither of his goals and assists he out-dribbled a player. Nuff said.
That is so true. And there is still an upcoming final I hope he will do something inspiring though. Not just scoring but set up an assists (through ball) that is worthy of remembrance.
People which is the WC14 jersey you fancy most? Pick one... Even though I am not rooting for Argentina most of the time, I always felt them jersey was always the prettiest historically But the Italian Jersey historically also rocks my boat to be honest Prettiest jersey @giles varley @Pipiolo @PuckVanHeel @JamesBH11 @leadleader @comme @PDG1978 @BocaFan
I also very much hope to see Messi (and Ozil as well) do something much better than what he did yesterday. But I'm just saying, though, that Maradona 1990 was not really better than the version of Messi we have seen at this World Cup, in my opinion.
2014WC is arguably the most open since 1970WC. In particular during the group stage. 1990WC was the most defensive. Which becomes typically interpreted as disdain, disregard and arrogance. Some will laugh at it but I've no doubt in my mind that small markets/countries as Netherlands and Portugal aid in finding a "villain". No doubt the "villain theme" is always a good sports story. It is esp. over the top since none of the yellow cards for Robben his opponents were for slight touches. And one can think about C. Ronaldo what he wants, but he's never spit on a colleague in his 700+ games career and the media cannot find stories about bullying managers or team-mates, pharma aid allowing him to train more and harder, cheating with tax and charity money, FIFA executives loving him (although it's suggested he won the Ballon d'Or by cheating) and so on. They do find stories about him looking in a mirror for an hour pre-match. Big deal. I'm impressed.
Where do Robben & Sneijder rank amongst Dutch players at World Cups? Has Robben overtaken the likes of Van Basten, Gullit and Bergkamp considering his perfomance in Brazil and his form at Bayern in the Van Gaal-Heynckes-Guardiola era?
Is the 2nd a separate question? At World Cups only? Over complete career it is a unperceptive, stupid and mindless suggestion.
I was 14 years old during Italia 90. it was my first WC I remember watching with some sense of the game. I remember seeing Totti Schillacci, Baggio, Baresi, Jurgen Klinsman, Voller, Lothar Matheaus, Maradona, Caniggia, Gary Lineker, John barnes, Paul Gaiscoigne , Peter Shilton (old guy back then), Careca. I do remember it rained on the final match. I remember the tension and anxiety that filled the eyes of the players on the pitch and I remember me crying when Argentina lost it. Maradona cried and so did I. While Rudi Voller ran towards the camera in utter joy with his hands up in the air shaking his head sporting his Mario Bros moustache and a curly blonde hair. But the moment a despised/dreaded seeing the most was Frank Rijkaard giving Voller a cosmetic treatment of the hair (by spitting). Disgusting! I am gonna re-watch Maradona's shortened videos of his stunts in WC90 to see what you guys are talking about cause my memory waned. But I tell you one thing, even if Messi gives a wolrd class through ball or scores again in this final, I still think overall he is not in the same class as Maradona WC86. For that to happen he should have done a little bit more during all stages. Expectations from fans and haters a like were very high for Messi when the WC started. And these expectations were well funded. Considering Messi out of this world performances with Club football in the last few years. So no wonder why we have some haters and or disappointed genuine fans of him expressing much frustration. @giles varley @Pipiolo