Which of 4 US Group play results was the "best" (2014, 2010, 2002, 1994)?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by KC96, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    This chart shows the opponents, score, final group results, and a graphic representation of the minutes in group stage (out of 270) that the US was ahead, tied, behind by 1, or behind by 2+ goals:

    [​IMG]

    Some observations - GROUP STAGE ONLY: (Stoppage time goals counted as 90th minute).

    2014:
    Pros: Toughest opposition yet US led or tied for 175 mins. US never down more than one goal.

    2010:
    Pros: Only time US won group, and undefeated in group play. Only time US advanced solely by it's own actions in the last game, making the other game irrelevant.
    Cons: Most minutes behind of any campaign. Only held the lead for one minute out of 270.

    2002:
    Pros: Ahead for more minutes than any other campaign. 85 mins of lead time was by 2+ goals, more than every other campaign combined.
    Cons: Behind by 2+ goals for more minutes than other 3 campaigns (combined, even).

    1994:
    Pros: Held the tie or lead for more minutes than any other campaign. Were never down by more than 1 goal.
    Cons: Scarcity of US goals - only 3, one of which was an own goal gifted to US by Columbia

    My vote is for 2014 as being the most impressive, due to opponent strength - although I might be biased because of how recent this one was. 2010, while having the most dramatic and memorable result, was mostly frustrating to watch for me. 2002 was sheer joy until the Poland game, which is the only one since 1990 I didn't fully watch as I switched to South Korea-Portugal to see if the US would advance.

    Please share your thoughts/comments below.
     
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  2. Cookham

    Cookham Member

    Jun 5, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2014, given how brutally difficult the group was. 2014 gets the edge over 2002 because a narrow loss to Germany clearly beats out getting thumped by an eliminated Poland. 2010 has a case since we won the group and it's a bottom line business, but it was arguably the easiest group (hard to fathom ever getting two opponents the caliber of Slovenia and Algeria ever again) and we flirted with disaster falling behind 2 to Slovenia in an inexcusably poor half.
     
  3. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    I may change my mind, but I'm blinded for now by the fact that we controlled our fate and won the third game in 2010 (dramatic and late as it was).

    Admittedly, this critical piece is somewhat random as each team plays three games, there is no control over the order, and advancing is based on all the results from all three games, but closing it out in 2010 with a win (and clinching first) makes it my first choice, at least for the moment.
     
  4. PhillyandBCEagles

    Jul 9, 2012
    NC
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    To be fair, all of that (and the 2 minutes we were down by 1) was in a single game, and it was sort of a fluke--Poland scored, we came right back down and scored a perfectly good goal maybe a minute later, it was called back for no reason, and Poland scored while we were still arguing with the ref.

    To me there's an interesting parallel between the Slovenia game in 2010 and the Portugal game this time: in both games a seemingly disastrous event took place late in the game for the US that robbed us of two points (Edu's non-goal in 2010, Varela's goal on Sunday); yet neither event ended up mattering at all, other than perhaps by taking years off the lives of US fans everywhere. In 2010 we won the group anyway and this year we would have still finished second even with a win over Portugal.
     
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  5. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Our group play in 2014 was the best the USMNT ever had due to the strength of the opponents. Well done, JK. However, that doesn't make it the best WC by the USMNT - that requires something good to happen from this point forward. To match 2010, the USMNT needs to be competitive against Belgium. If so, that would make it the USMNT's 2nd best effort. A win would make this the USMNT's best World Cup ever.
     
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  6. beerslinger23

    beerslinger23 Member+

    Jun 26, 2010
    I'll put it this way. Ghana scored 4 goals, We scored 4 goals, Portugal scored 4 goals and Germany scored 5 goals against 11 man sides and 2 more against a 10 man side. THIS was the toughest group not because of the most champions or something but because the margins were razor thin. Ghana could have won another group, as could Portugal or the US. There were star strikers and midfielders AND keepers sprinkled throughout this group. We barely made it out even though we were 30 seconds away from escaping it after two games.
     
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  7. kickin365

    kickin365 Member+

    Mar 4, 2002
    I would vote for 1994, because the experience level of our players was in a completely different place then.
     
  8. ty webb

    ty webb Member

    Aug 28, 2005
    NYC
    2014 is easily the most impressive. By far, the toughest competition we've had. Two legit top 10 teams, and one good enough to win it all. Ghana probably gets out of almost any other group.

    1994 is second. We weren't very good. And had little experience.

    2002 is third. We got crushed by a weak Poland team and drew an average SK team.

    2010 was easily the least. We barely got out of the easiest group we will ever see at a WC. The 2010 Algeria and Slovenia teams were mediocre. England were a top seed and not very good.
     
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  9. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    #9 schrutebuck, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
    1994: 1-1-1, 3 goals scored, 3 allowed, D-W-L, finished 3rd due to inferior goal differential.
    2002: 1-1-1, 5 goals scored, 6 allowed, W-D-L, finished 2nd alone with significant help in the last match.
    2010: 1-2-0, 4 goals scored, 3 allowed, D-D-W, finished 1st by superior goals scored.
    2014: 1-1-1, 4 goals scored, 4 allowed, W-D-L, finished 2nd by goal differential with a little help in the last match.

    I'm struck by the similarity between 1994 and 2014. In 1994, the one blowout in Group A was what knocked the US down from 2nd to 3rd, while the one blowout in Group F in 2014 kept the US in 2nd instead of 3rd.

    It's down to aesthetics and thinking about the things that went wrong. 2002 and 2014 are similar in that the US was minutes away from securing an easier 3rd match with 2nd match victories, but instead conceded late equalizers. 2010 was the opposite, in that the US seemingly blew the 2nd match but then secured a draw and potentially even a win that would have secured an easier 3rd match. It's tough to see where the US went wrong in 1994, however. They could have fought harder in the 3rd match, but 4 points on 0 goal differential was generally enough to advance in tournaments and the randomness of the 3rd place matchups meant that it didn't necessarily have to end with Brazil.

    Only 9 countries have made the Round of 16 in 4 of the last 6 World Cups, Brazil (6), Germany (6), Mexico (6), Netherlands (5), Argentina (5), Spain (4), England (4), Italy (4) and USA.
     
  10. Wessoman

    Wessoman Member+

    Sep 26, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remember, a US loss would have seen South Korea through. It wasn't a fluke--The referee (Who was suspended for Match-Fixing years later.) called everything against the US, and this game was just as rigged as 2010 Slovenija. Remember, the Poles clearly fouled the US when they scored their second, and the third was a borderline handball. Say what you will about Italians still being butthurt about the 2002 World Cup, but USA v Poland in the World Cup pretty much gives total credibility to their assertation that the refs were giving Korea the full VIP treatment.

    As for my best group play results--I'd say it's 2002--Namely because the US had finished last in '98 and NOBODY gave the US an even cursory chance. Going up 3-0 over Portugal shocked people just as much as Senegal trouncing France.
     
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  11. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Also, 2010 we got 5 points, the others only 4. Yes '10 is hard to watch. Perhaps the tie vs. England should have been a loss, but hard done by referees in both Slovenia and Algeria made a win a tie and an easy win, the most dramatic moment in recent history.

    Not taking anything away from this group, but a 2 game winless streak hasn't felt this good since 2002.
     
  12. FW__

    FW__ Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Chattanooga, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1990...wait, wut?
     
  13. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I noticed 1998 and 2006 were left out of this analysis.
     
  14. BringSoccerToIndy

    May 24, 2008
    1001 West New York Street, Indianapolis, IN
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd like to see the argument for 1998 as our best group performance. At least on the field. If we are talking about sleeping with teammate's wife that 1998 team was once in a generation.
     
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  15. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it is this year - by some measure - given the opponent difficulty.

    Our 2010 group was the weakest of the bunch, and while I appreciated the character of the comebacks (same character we displayed against Ghana), we shouldn't have been in those situations in the first place.

    Portugal in 2002 receives my vote for best single-game result, and grabbing a point off of South Korea as the host was a good accomplishment. Epic letdown against Poland, though.

    1994 is second-best for me. Second-best result against Colombia, and decent showings against Switzerland and Romania when we were truly underdogs (our ELO rating hovering in the high 40s-low 50s at the time).
     
  16. mattjo

    mattjo Member+

    Feb 3, 2001
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    each had something different and it is really hard to chose:

    1994: man the excitement of beating Colombia and even just remembering Marcelo's just missed bicyle kick. It meant everything to host back then. Romania was disappointing, and Switzerland was kind of eh... but loved getting to the 2nd round.

    2002: The Portugal match was outstanding; our best ever single match result in the modern era World Cup. That said Poland was awful and frustrating. South Korea was a very chippy match (remember the SK Apollo Ono protest goal celebration?).

    2010: I think we had the most style points in 2010 for attractiveness of play. The opponents were weaker, but we were always dangerous. Through the end of the group we had generated tons of shots (something like 41 shots in 3 matches) and controlled possession in 2 out of 3 matches. We were a missed call in the Slovenia match from having a 2-0-1 record.

    2014: tough, ground-out results in a ridiculously tough group.
     
  17. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2010 isn't the only time we won group, we won in 1930.

    2010 felt the best because we overcame the officials and the Slovenia game and got the winner at the death against Algeria.

    2002 had the highest peak, the Portugal game when we were up 3-0. Wow. That was something. And judgement is clouded somewhat by the KO round performance against Mexico and Germany. Ditto in 1994 where we backed in, but played really well (Balboa's almost wonder bike) and I still wonder what if that elbow vs. Brazil would have bee seen and gotten the red it deserved, or if Ramos was just on the pitch.

    But if we are talking group only, then I'll take 2014. Hardest group of them all, though 2002 was tough.
     
  18. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    #1 1994

    Could not be the first host not to progress. Measure of success kept mo' going for MLS. No question.

    #2 2002

    Team played with confidence and looked like they could beat anybody on a given day.

    #3 2010

    Team wins group. No losses. Controls own destiny.

    #4 2014

    Survives group of death, but looks outmanned in two games.

    #5 2006

    Still in it on matchday 3 and bad luck and bad call largely responsible for going out. Ties eventual champs in epic game.

    #6 1990

    Just happy to be there. And "almost tied Italy."

    #7 1998

    Abomination.
     
  19. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Brazil did get a red. But the US missed Ramos more than Brazil missed an 11th player.
     
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  20. PhillyandBCEagles

    Jul 9, 2012
    NC
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Also our team was MUCH weaker on paper than any of the subsequent WCs, even 1998. A lot of the guys on the 1994 team wouldn't have even been full-time professionals if the USSF hadn't signed them to permanent contracts a year or two before the Cup.
     
  21. PhillyandBCEagles

    Jul 9, 2012
    NC
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Also, it doesn't get a lot of recognition because it was only a draw and it was the only point we got that WC, but any discussion of best single-game performance in a WC group stage has to include the draw against an Italy team that went on to win the tournament in 2006. We played basically the entire second half down a man (to be fair, we also played a good chunk of the first up a man) and even got a late go-ahead goal that was called back on a questionable offside call.
     
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  22. papermache16

    papermache16 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has there been any group winner in the history of the WC that held a lead in the group stages for a shorter time than we did in 2010?

    Scratch that, has there been any runner-up as well??
     
  23. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    We controlled our fate in the 2014 also, but just didn't control it to our liking. Dempsey puts that last header on frame and we're undefeated and good to go on points. Same in 2002, actually, albeit with the blowout.
     
  24. Scoey

    Scoey Member

    Oct 1, 1999
    Portland
    2014. But 2002 runs a very, very close second. That was a very hard group and we played very well in it. I think people are misremembering how tough that group was:

    - Portugal was everybody's dark house to win the whole tournament. Their Golden Generation was in its prime. And we smashed their faces in - not by luck, but by playing some really good, really smart, really efficient soccer.

    - South Korea were an absolute revelation. Coached by, arguably, the best National Team coach in the era (Hiddink) and playing at home. The energy they played with was incredible. They made the semifinals. We led for large portions of the game and ultimately drew them.

    - Poland won their UEFA qualifying group (not easy to do), winning 6 times, drawing 3 times, and losing only once. They had leading scorer in qualifying, Olisadebe.

    This group was not as hard as 2014, but I think we had a higher quality of play in 2002. Both groups were fun to watch! Onward to the round of 16!
     
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  25. Scoey

    Scoey Member

    Oct 1, 1999
    Portland
    That performance was so epic. Truly heroic. If I recall, we were the only team to beat or hold Italy to a draw until the final (which they won).
     

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