Official Fire Jurgen Klinsmann Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by ussoccer97531, May 22, 2014.

  1. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

    Jun 23, 2009
    Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I too look forward to the Send-Off Series Championship banner being raised in Crew Stadium.
     
    Berks and The_Dude repped this.
  2. TabLalas

    TabLalas Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *This message was brought to you by Clueless, the new energy drink.*
     
    LaughingTulkas and El Cid repped this.
  3. ty webb

    ty webb Member

    Aug 28, 2005
    NYC
    JK is probably our best coach in our history. Does anyone really want him fired?
     
  4. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    I'm so glad that someone else has summed that up perfectly!

    Even if Klinsmann manages to escape the Group of Death at the moment that credit won't go to Americans, but we will continue to be derided for taking so many players from other nations in order to do so.

    The World Cup is our proving ground, and we can't prove it if we aren't the ones who are there.

    Such a contrast to the Confederation Cup when it was American players about to stun the world... We aren't where we were 10-15 years ago, we don't need players like this on our team to do well at the World Cup. Why such a concerted effort was undertaken to uncover whatever psuedo Americans they could find to put on the team when we had a solid team as it was is a pure example of how Klinsi looks downward on our game.

    That alone is reason enough to be fired.

    This isn't about xenophobia... there are numerous foreign born immigrant players that people have been saying ought to be on the team... one that grew up here spending a majority of their time here, playing high school, college, etc. Those players can be said to have developed in the American system.

    It's about a coach who saw our team and said these guys aren't good enough we need to scour Europe for people with slight ties to America so we can recruit them.

    Then he surrounds himself with foreign coaches, Andreas Herzog (who seems to be doing Low's job), Berti Vogts and co.

    The US has developed strong enough as a soccer nation where we do not need foreign coaching, foreign players to be adopted as ours. We have come far enough where we can stand on our own and go toe to toe with the best of them, and have. Recent results of 3-2 over Portugal, 1-1 with Italy, 1-1 with England, have shown we can do this and can get away from borrowed/pouched talent.

    Yet, our head coach doesn't actually believe that, by his clear actions.
     
    lplaksina repped this.
  5. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    Freddy Adu?
     
  6. TabLalas

    TabLalas Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure I'm ready to annoint him as our best coach, he still has to get it done on the big-stage before we attach any monikers to him.
     
    aarond23 repped this.
  7. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. He is certainly doing an ok job.

    In his first 7 games he lost 4 matches.
    In his last 43 matches he has lost 7.

    29-7-7 is a pretty good record for a national team coach I must say. But its all about the world cup.

    31-8-11 now overall.
     
  8. The_Dude

    The_Dude Member+

    Aug 21, 2004
    He won some friendlies. Yay!
    Everything is not black and white. Did Klinsmann win something? Does the fact that he made good coaching decisions in a friendly, lead up to the World Cup, against a team that certainly was trying to work on things themselves mean that his decision to leave LD off the roster, and take Brad Davis and Julian Green over him was a good one? Of course not. Of course the turd «I LOVE YURGY» crowd proclaims victory, however.

    I LOVED that formation given the players he has at his disposal. I'm excited about what the US can do in Brazil. I've not stopped rooting for the US because Klinnsman let his personal feelings get in the way of coaching. A 3-0 record in the send off series does not change the fact that Herr Scheinheilige did not name the best 23 players
     
    Berks and 21st Century Pele repped this.
  9. aarond23

    aarond23 Member+

    Feb 24, 2006
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Big Soccer is just bi polar and swings back and forth, everyone is on a high now because we had a good game vs Nigeria, but the goal should still be the same, get out of the group in the WC.

    If Klinsmann gets zero points and the team looks bad, this thread will start going the other way again.
     
    Berks repped this.
  10. lars10

    lars10 Member

    Oct 30, 2006
    .... I feel like the bolded is exactly what this is.

    And 'slight ties'? One of the parents is American or they were born here..how is that slight?
    Who are the players on this team who haven't spent any time in the American system?
    Diskerud was brought in by Rongen and played for the U20s.
    Johannsson was born here and spent time here throughout high school and at academies here.

    I guess you're against Chandler, Fabian Johnson being on the team since they have basically lived in Germany?
    Maybe Brooks? Even though he's been playing in our youth sides? I guess you could add Green too because of how he's more or less lived most of his life in Germany...again...all four of these guys were born here or have an American parent...we're not stretching to say they're American.

    If anything I feel like Klinsmann has concentrated too heavily on German players...seeming to go with what he's comfortable with and knows rather than spreading out and scouting the whole system...but I guess we'll see.

    What's odd is that you think 1-1 with Italy, 1-1 with England is good enough...the 3-2 win against Portugal was great..but in order to be taken seriously the US needs to be winning games regularly at the world cup. Maybe JK was right that the US needs a change in mindset....even though he's also set expectations low as well.

    Or was this all tongue in cheek?
     
  11. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    Here is more fodder for why he should be fired:

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/worldcup/2...nn-says-talk-tactical-systems-not-speed-anymo

    "JACKSONVILLE, Fla. – Much has been made of the switch by the US national team to a diamond midfield in recent games. But to the manager, the tactics aren't really the point.

    Jurgen Klinsmann is more concerned with how his players support each other on the field than how they’ll operate within the much-discussed diamond formation during the World Cup.

    On Saturday at EverBank Field, the USMNT will likely give the set-up another go against Nigeria in their final send-off match (6 pm ET, ESPN2) before leaving for Brazil. But to Klinsmann, that isn't the be-all and end-all for the team heading into the World Cup.

    “I think there are pro and cons, like with every system,” Klinsmann said to reporters on Friday when asked how his players have adapted to the recent change. “But it doesn’t really matter what shape we have or what system we have, it matters how we kind of connect with one another on the field.”

    He feels his team is capable of adjusting to any formation and that as long as they’re able to defend as a unit that the system they play in hardly matters.

    “All these discussions about different systems are actually not up to speed anymore,” Klinsmann said. “The systems are not the key anymore like it was maybe 10 or 15 years ago. It all changed for the best teams in the world, led by Spain. They made every system look stupid because they came up with a 4-6-0 in the last European Championship and beat everybody.”

    The freedom to move midfielders into attacking positions, and back again to help on defense, relies on speed and the extra efforts of multiple individuals throughout the pitch.

    Klinsmann even went as far as to indirectly reference a former USMNT player who was recently omitted from this year’s roster to drive home his point.

    “I think we need to go away from the system discussion. It doesn’t get you anywhere,” he said. “Years ago it was all down to the No. 10 to make things happen, but now maybe it’s the No. 6 that makes things happen, or the fullbacks make things happen.”


    Okay, so taking him at his word, that it's about #6's making it happen, then why did he take our best #6 and put him in the #10 spot? Or was that his ridiculous way of explaining why he did so?

    On the whole if you were to compare this to Germany's system, that would be like benching Ozil and playing Khedira in Ozil's spot...

    So again, I ask why is this guy our coach?

    When he took over, if anyone would be asked who our top 3-5 players to build around would be, the list would include Howard, Bradley, Dempsey, Donovan, and Altidore (in any order). Aside from that you would have to go thinking about names, but those were our clear best.

    Yet, I cannot recall 1 single occasion where Klinsmann has played all of them together.

    He says it's not about tactics, but then describes several tactical things... unfortunately for him they are not correct.

    Spain did not beat everyone with a 4-6-0... David Villa was clearly played as a lone forward. Yes, it didn't look like they had a reliance on a striker, but they had a heavy reliance on attacking mids. We have a similar abundance of attacking mids, and he doesn't think Donovan could fit into that system alongside Dempsey and Bradley? Instead he kept trying to make Donovan the flank player...

    So even though he used Spain as an example of how to win, he hasn't followed Spain's example.

    He's right, nominally, it wouldn't matter what system he chose, he could've found any systems to play with, and he could've put Dempsey, Donovan, and Bradley in mid together, Altidore up top, Howard in net... and the greater majority of the criticism of him would never have occured. If they worked well and he went with them, he'd be supported, if he went with them and it didn't look like it was working, and he took them out, it would be supported. But, when they were playing together, it looked very much like it was working, at the Confederations Cup in 2009 and the World Cup in 2010.

    This team didn't need an overhaul, it needed slight tweaking and an advance in tactics and strategy. Instead Klinsmann came in and made it a complete overhaul job, and to my best memory NEVER once played our best talent together.


    Then, you have to look further at that. 10-15 years ago it was about tactics? It's always been about tactics. It always will be. Tactics are how teams of comparable ability outdo each other.

    To say that Spain beat everyone with a 4-6-0 and no one uses a 10 anymore is ridiculous. Germany uses a #10 in Ozil. Italy uses a #10 in Pirlo. Holland uses a #10 in Sneijder. That doesn't mean those nations aren't surrounded by other talented players, but they use a #10 and a #6 in their systems, and have done extremely well in doing so.

    Spain beat them, but not without using tactics. It was that very "system discussion" that had Spain get the edge on everyon. Instead of trying to fit into a style that wasn't working for them Aragones applied the zonal posession style of game that was being used at Barcelona from a continuance of the Totaalvoetball that Dutch coaches brought there, and adopted it, and perfected it for the Spanish National Team. It was their own style, tiqui-taca, and have used that tactically to out-possess opponents, lull them to sleep with that possession, then strike. It's a very extremely efficient system, because if you do it well it's extremely impossible for the other team to score if they do not have the ball. It helped Spain win Euro 2008, World Cup 2010, and Euro 2012, it also brought Barcelona two Champions League titles. It also But, it takes the players Spain/Barcelona has at the moment to pull it off.

    Has Klinsmann tried to adopt tiqui-taka and applied it to us? No... Clearly Bradley as an attacking mid in no way compares with Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, etc. Donovan, Dempsey, Zusi, perhaps... but it's not our system, nor should it be. We need to decide on our own. Klinsmann hasn't done that either. He has tried experimenting with the 4-4-2 he used with Germany, the 4-2-3-1 that Low has used with Germany, and the 4-3-3 that Germany used to use. He isn't thinking about tactics or creating them, he is borrowing them... simply because he doesn't have the ability to. Yet, even amazingly, he hasn't borrowed from another system Germany used that had an abundance of attacking midfielders (the one he was in) where they used a 3-5-2, something which might work with Donovan = Matthaus/Hasler/Moller, etc. Dempsey = Matthaus/Buckwald, Thon, etc. Bradley = Brehme/Matthaus/Sammer, etc.

    I agree nominally that it doesn't matter what formation we use, but the tactics and the strategy are extremely important, and that's what this team severely lacks. It's always a bunch of guessing and experiments. Even his World Cup roster is a guessing game / experimental squad.

    In the 3 games we've played as warm-ups there's been nothing to the consistency of the style of play, the tactics, the strategy, the line-up, and anything that would indicate that this team can beat the better teams in the game when it matters.

    That is not to say it can't happen, but when your coach's best approach seems clearly to be grasping at straws, and from his own words even lacks tactics, then clearly he is not the coach to lead us, but just as he was described in Germany, as more of a cheerleader.

    Klinsmann would make a great personal trainer for he US MNT, but he lacks tactics and vision. He is not a good head coach. He is not touch with reality when it comes to this situation.
     
    MPNumber9 repped this.
  12. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not the one calling people I've never met "turds". You seem to be taking this much more personally than anyone else.
     
  13. lars10

    lars10 Member

    Oct 30, 2006
    This is where I am... I'm glad the team played well the last three games... and they looked particularly good in attack. I'm neither pro JK or LD...I just think as dangerous as this attack is..it would have looked even more dangerous with LD. Here's hoping they continue to look this dangerous against Germany, Portugal and Ghana. Will we find out what the result is against Belgium?
     
  14. beerslinger23

    beerslinger23 Member+

    Jun 26, 2010
    Blah blah blah. His record as our coach thus far indicates that this thread is pure foolishness. The Klinsmann firing squad has no legs to stand on. Their reasoning is strained and their bitterness, palpable. Get over it folks...
     
    owian repped this.
  15. Mr. Vero

    Mr. Vero Member

    Apr 10, 2014
    I've been very critical of Klinsmann (call-ups and team performances) and more so of Gulati (renewing a contract without seeing how the team performs at the World Cup).

    However, with the World Cup days away, we should all hold off on any further criticisms and wait until the games begin. The proof is in the pudding - now, we'll see. Let's get behind the team and hope for the best.

    I've never called for Klinsmann to be fired UNTIL after the World Cup performances were evaluated and judged. If they weren't acceptable (acceptable = getting out of the group), then I'd be in favor of taking action. Now, we will find out.

    Watching the Nigeria game was very entertaining - not because of the match itself. More so, because all that talk about "attacking, creative and possession oriented soccer" went straight out the window for a much more practical, Bob Bradley-esque approach of tight defense/midfield, bunker, and swift counter attack.

    It's highly ironic that it took 3 years for Klinsmann to realize that this was the only way the USA can get far in the World Cup. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not one of these wide-eyed idealists who think a team that controls possession and has plenty of shots on goal is the only way to play soccer. The reality is that for MOST TEAMS, strong defense and swift counter are the only ways to defeat opposition that is technically superior. USA, like most nations, doesn't have the players at their disposal to play the way Klinsmann wants.

    Also, I'm ready to argue that it is HARDER to play as a bunker and counter team than anything else. Why? Well, pretty much all the minnows bunker - how does that work out for them? They still lose. Most teams that play that style lose, which is why it is all the more impressive when a team wins with the style of play.

    One of the biggest upsets in soccer history - Greece winning Euro 2004. How'd they do it? By mastering this tight defense and counter attack style. If the USA can do that, why should anyone be calling for a Brazil style of play that even Brazil realizes you can't play anymore?
     
  16. cweimers

    cweimers Member+

    Mar 5, 2010
    DC
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really don't understand why people want to fire a coach who wins. I get the retort that he hasn't won anything of consequence yet, but you have to at least give him a chance to do so first... You can't both claim he hasn't won a real game and call for him to be fired before he has a chance to win one.
     
    beerslinger23 repped this.
  17. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sorry. But the above post is just outright silly.

    Have you traveled in your life? Do you realize it's a big world out there? Have you seen youngsters in the streets of places like Italy kicking the ball around? They are patently better with the ball than kids in the USA...

    The USA does not have the cultural roots in soccer that other countries have. We're not on par with the rest of the world. It's silly or even foolish to think we are...

    JK is simply working to drive that point home with his statements and actions... The man is overhauling a system and soccer culture - and he's getting results in the process.

    Your post smacks of xenophobia. In all seriousness, I suggest you go do some traveling and broaden your horizons.
     
    gobig6 repped this.
  18. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would hardly consider the way we played yesterday bunkering. Sure we put Beckerman and Jones in the midfield together to bolster the defense (which has had some pretty shaky moments the last few games). But this also enabled our most creative player to focus more on the attack and less on defensive coverage. So what if much of our attack was in counters. That doesn't mean the team was bunkering. We didn't consistently play with 9 and 10 guys behind the ball. We played to stifle the Nigerian forwards and control the midfield. The latter which we did damn well! I thought yesterday was one of the best games the MNT has played in quite awhile and really should have finished with a better score differential. Deuce had an EASY layoff for a gimmie goal that he chose to take on and shoot himself.

    Great all around game and Kudos to the coach for getting the team ready and playing as a unit. Personally the only change I would make going into Ghana would be to start Chandler over Beasley.
     
    Statman repped this.
  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    In he flops in the World Cup, were he Jesus himself, I'd want him fired.
     
  20. Mr. Vero

    Mr. Vero Member

    Apr 10, 2014
    Ceding most of the possession to Nigeria + not many goal scoring chances + counter attack = bunkering and counter attack style (from Arena and Bradley era).

    Plus, in the first half, Michael Bradley was tracking back and providing a lot of coverage in midfield rather than "attacking." It was only after Nigeria stopped running in the second half (to avoid injuries and save energy for WC), that Bradley had a chance to start moving forward and be more of a playmaker.
     
  21. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FFS, when we attack to much people want JK fired because he is naive and refuses to adopt to the players we have. When he plays a more defensive setup he is criticized for "bunkering". He clearly can't win with certain people. They are so entrenched in their hatred of Jurgen, not due to results, but because he didn't bring a certain player.

    Yeh so Bradley isn't American, Jozy isn't American, Beckerman isn't American, Cameron, Belser, Beasley?

    If Diego Costa scores the winning goal for Spain does Spain get credit for winning the World Cup? Or if Messi is player of the tournament for Argentina (at this point Messi's footballing development has been influenced by Spain much more so than Argentina). What if Sterling plays well for England? (born and raised to the age of 12 in Jamaica).

    This is the modern world. The idea of Nationality is ever more a personal decision. These people made a personal decision and I for one thank them for choosing the US and making our team stronger. I don't give 2 S**TS who scores if it's Jones, Johnson, Bradley or Altidore. As long as they have USA on their chest.
     
    bye_urn and Statman repped this.
  22. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    It's not xenophobia. How would it be xenophobia. Am I afraid of foreigners? Am I afraid of outsiders? No... It's a preference to have the US MNT feature American style soccer players who were developed in the American soccer system to prove that American soccer belongs on the world stage. We can't prove we belong by doing it with players.

    To use your examples;

    Yes Rongen (who is Dutch) discovered Diskerud playing in Norway, and inquired if he had a US Passport, then brought him into he U-20 team. They're hardly youths at that point, though, he developed playing overseas. You can't say that's American soccer. That's Americans pouching players from overseas.

    Johannson similarly, was born here in the US to two Icelandic parents, and was given citizenship they did not have. They took him back to Iceland when he was 3, which is where he spent the majority of his youth, learning to play soccer, until suddenly he was contacted with the opportunity to attend the Bradenton Soccer Academy. So they relocated to Florida, put him in a specialized school so he could attend it. He spent 1 year there, then returned to Iceland to go back and play professional soccer there. That's hardly the US developing their own talent. That's trying to poach talent from overseas.

    That's like saying I want to prove you wrong about American car makers not being able to compete in F1, then buying a Mercedes and painting it with US colors, and heading to the race.

    Their ties to America are scant, regardless of birth and/or ancestry. They were not found in America. They were found in Europe and brought to America so we could claim them. That's the approach we took back in 1990, 1994, 1998. By 2002 we had really thrown off the need to be doing that.

    You're right, he's focused too entirely on German players. I couldn't agree more. That's in 1 part because he is used to it, it's another because he values that as a much higher game. So anyone who is on a bench of a German team, or plays on a low level German team, must obviously be better than someone who plays in MLS. That's also how someone from AZ and Rosenberg gets thrust in.

    Chad Marshall has consistently been one of the absolute best defenders in MLS. How does he not get a call up but John Brooks does? Because Brooks plays in Germany.

    It's not Xenophobia it's calling it like it is.

    Our own national team coach looks down on American soccer, and overrates European soccer compared with it.

    If that's the case, it's always going to be the case. We can't ever beat them with them with their 2nd rate cast-offs. That's a clear losing strategy.

    You don't have Germany select Khedira, and go away from using Jermaie Jones, then try to beat Khedira with Jermaine Jones, their cast off. You can beat Khedira using Bradley as our 6, a comparable player in terms of skill defensively and creatively, if not slightly ahead. That's what we're talking about.

    Until we put an emphasis on home grown talent and developing our own domestic style of play we will never get ahead.

    No nation has ever won the World Cup, or even become a competitive powerhouse (to include Holland, Portugal, etc.) while borrowing many of their players, and without developing their own style of play. We need to do the same thing if we want to advance to the next level. We had been going that way under Arena and Bradley, but have taken a major step back with Klinsmann. It feels like Steve Sampson over again. At least when Bora did it, we didn't have the league set up. Then I understood it. Now with a developed and competitive league, that has top class players in it, America has the opportunity to do the same. Instead, we've gone backwards in our development of players, and reverted to focusing on pouching from other nations.


    As far as the results of 1-1 with England, and 1-1 with Italy, perhaps you're not very knowledgeable about the game. The knockout matches would be another thing, but when top nations meet each other in the group phase there are often draws.

    Those are outstanding results most soccer nations would have been happy with... especially when you consider that in each we came back from a goal down early, and in the Italy match especially, we were down a man for nearly the entire second half. Add to that Italy went on to win the cup, and we were the only opponents they did not beat and it's another thing to be proud of.

    Considering they were the pot 1 opponent in the group, and we took points off them, it set up a strong possibility to advance if we got points from the lower seeds in the group, and we did.

    I don't see those as the ceiling, but major stepping blocks on the way to a greater future.

    As proof, here is a great example of how US Soccer has improved/evolved the longer we've gotten away from a reliance on foreign based players.

    US Results Verse Top Seeded Opponents in Recent World Cups
    WC 90 - Italy 1 USA 0
    WC 94 - Does Not Apply, we were top seed as hosts
    WC 98 - Germany 2 USA 0
    WC 02 - Korea 1 USA 1
    WC 06 - Italy 1 USA 1
    WC 10 - England 1 USA 1

    So yes, we used to use mostly players from overseas. It got us more competitive, but 2nd rate foreign players did poorly against their top rate counterparts on the big stage. However, as we began developing our own talent we have begun to do better and have gone toe-to-toe with the top team in our group.

    The team in 2009, 2010 should've been the building blocks of this team, and we should've worked on complimenting them with newer talent, not trying to replace/remold them into players they weren't, and doing a major overhaul of the team we had been building on that was reaching that point of being a world power.

    We had a core team of players who could compete head to head with the best of them, in Donovan, Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore, and Howard. We had many other options coming along, in players who complimented them well, like EJ, Parkhurst, Edu, Zusi, etc. But instead of complimenting them, he used them in place of them. He NEVER used them together, once. It was always a combo of Bradley-Altidore, Dempsey-Bradley, Donovan-Dempsey, etc.

    Why was our own head coach opposed to giving our own best players a chance to compete together?

    Why was that 2009/2010 team not allowed to build on what they did?

    Spain brought their core players back from the failed 2006 World Cup to then build on what they had to win in 2010. Italy brought their core players back from the failed Euro 2004 to build on for 2006, experienced players like Nesta, Cannavaro, Pirlo, Totti, Gattuso, etc all lead the team (while De Rossi almost cost them with the elbow in the US game). Brazil brought most of their 1998 Final squad back to win in 2002, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, etc. (and they left Kaka and Robinho on the bench). France hadn't qualified for WC 94, but they had a heavy veteran presence on their national team, with Djorkaeff, Blanc, Duggary, Desailly, Kaerembu, Thuram, etc. (while the young playmaker Zidane almost cost them with a red card in the 2nd match and Trezeguet stayed on the bench, and you can't fault Blanc for his Red card that was a total phantom acting job). Brazil in 1994 had several aged veterans as well, with Dunga, Bebeto, Aldair, Rai, Jorginho, Romario, etc. (The young midfielder Leonardo almost cost them with the elbow against the US, and Ronaldo sat on the bench). In 1990 Germany brought back several players from the 1986 team and the 1988 Euro team in Matthaus, Brehme, Voller, Littbarksi, Thon, Berthold, Augenthaler, etc. mixing in Kohler, Klinsmann, Hassler, and Reidle to compliment them (you can't fault Voller for his Red card, he was spit on twice by Riykaard).

    Good teams don't just appear out of thin air, they take time to develop. They usually take multiple times playing in these competitions, or multiple experiences in top club competitions before they break through.

    Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore, Howard is not enough of a core from our success in recent years to carry over, and DMB wasn't much part of that as a left back until a recent conversion. This current US squad is also a shell of the team that won the Gold Cup just a year ago. Donovan, EJ, Corona, Edu, Goodson, Parkhurst, were all cast aside... without performing badly to warrant it.

    Klinsmann said it's about how we play together as a team... why does he keep breaking up the team then? The collection of random foreign kids he has brought together don't have all that much experience doing so.

    I pray the results go differently at the World Cup, and I'm glad that Portugal and Germany don't seem to be firing on all cylinders at the moment, but from what I see it looks like Klinsmann is putting on a clinic of how not to coach.

    a) throwing off star players who are respected by the team at the last minute
    b) not consulting core players and looking for their suggestions of who/how they'd like to play
    c) not creating a strong vision or strategy for the team
    d) misusing talent in positions/roles they're not meant to be playing in
    e) mixing in totally inexperienced players and playing them together constantly
    f) dismantling a successful team while right at the doorstep
    g) using practice field metrics to determine how people will play in game-time situations, ignoring existing on field proof from games
    h) undervaluing of domestically developed talent in favor of foreign influences
    i) not giving players clear guidelines as to what is expected of them
    j) leading certain players along as if they stood a chance to play when he knew all along he wasn't going to select them, rather than telling them directly where he thought they were weak and giving them a chance to work on and improve their game in order to get brought back into the fold

    These 3 results against beatable opponents doesn't change the fact that we don't look like we have improved any from the 2006 or 20010 squads. We haven't changed to main aspect that we lacked, a clear vision and a new unique purely American style of soccer that we can beat the rest of the world with. We have not advanced with Klinsmann as coach, but reverted back to Bora, even though Bora didn't have a 18 year existing domestic top flight soccer league to chose from.
     
  23. Bubba1971

    Bubba1971 Member+

    Nov 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Klinsmann can't win with me because of the damage he's already done. He talks down to the US public. He belittles the domestic league. He doesn't believe the United States can produce world class players. For those of us who have dedicated a large portion of our lives to growing the game in the US he seems to feel the need to slap us in the face repeatedly.

    A USMNT coach needs to help grow the game, not just worry about X's and O's. And quite frankley, so does every player on the field.
     
    Lothar is 1 repped this.
  24. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    To be fair, Bradley did as well because he gave more chances to anyone playing basically anywhere in Europe before the average MLS players.

    I don't think you understand what Klinsmann said regarding World Class Players. he said we need to change the way we play to produce world class players, otherwise it is difficult, not impossible.
     
  25. lars10

    lars10 Member

    Oct 30, 2006
    1. Do you really think we're the only NT that does this? As just one example... what do you think of the German national team?
    2. Funny you picked Mercedes..because we all know that all Mercedes are made in Germany... um http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_U.S._International
    3. MLS is not a topflite league yet..sorry. It's good that our players learn to play overseas or go to play higher competition... if you were say a fan of Spanish Basketball...would you want them all to stay in Spain...or would you rather they come to the NBA? Swedish hockey fan?...Sweden or NHL?
    4. I agree that he should have brought LD and Goodson/Parkhurst and left Green and Chandler (and Omar) behind.
    5. No coach should ever consult with his players to ask who he should cut
    6. This team was not on the brink.
    7. I do agree that the US should have its own identity and playing style..and it's moving in the right direction IMO... I do wish JK didn't focus so heavily on Germans and a more German style of practice and attitude etc. This isn't Germany..and a coach should understand that...we're a melting pot and as much as we can learn from Europe, the coach should understand what makes our country/attitude/team different and how it can be an advantage. It's hard to not see how much the style of play has improved in the past 10 years... we used to bunker far more and kick the ball out of the back and try to get it... now we actually pass out of trouble which is nice.

    Saying that we don't need foreign players or a foreign coach in my mind is either a naive 'Murica is the best!' kind of attitude or xenophobia (not necessarily fear, but not liking for being not from here just for not being from here)... we can still learn a lot from across the pond both playing and coaching, but the coach needs to also cater more to the players he has instead of having a style of play and catering players to it.
     

Share This Page