Donovan Cut - is this the end of Landon?

Klinsi specializes in pissing on our leg and trying to convince us it is raining.

What do you mean we Kemo Sabe??

 

I don't feel comfortable with anyone on our squad tracking CR for a whole game? You do? If that's the criteria, then no one fits the bill. I actually expect CR to line up on the left and I would put Donovan on our left, so not really an issue for me anyway. But, for the record, I'd rather see Donovan against CR than Bedoya, yes.

No one has the same left foot as Brad Davis. Why does that mean that you cut Donovan? Are you implying that Donovan has zero qualities that Davis lacks? If you would rather have Davis on your bench than Donovan, OK. I just disagree with that and find it beyond unreasonable.

I'm fine with Green as a guy who sits the bench and doesn't play unless you cut someone we need in favor of him. Then you've lost me.

Appeal to authority and begging the question. Does he not see him as a mid, as you start to say, or is it personal, as you conclude at the end?

Same with Dempsey, Bradley, Howard and Beasley. Should we cut them too or should we consider what they offer compared to the alternatives?

On this we agree. The vast majority of us complaining about Donovan's cut are still very much rooting for the US to succeed. Your attempt to look like a bigger fan than us is weak, at best.

 

See 10 September 2013.

 

I think you missed my point.

 

Sorry everybody, real life happens to us mods sometimes too.

Having said that, it's nice to see the thread get back on track on its own, let's keep it that way. Anything from here on that's off-topic or overtly political will be dealt with.

 

I got your point. I was just clarifying that not even Klinsmann wants to say out loud that he thinks Davis and Green are even "a little bit ahead" of Donovan. Rather, he sidesteps the issue by refusing to compare them on the grounds that he views Donovan as a forward only. Classic false dichotomy.

 

He'd made up his mind and preferred to use the friendlies to establish team cohesion and try to settle on a starting 11? It's not the most controversial idea, many teams selected their 23 even earlier. The real question is whether or not he had his mind made up before camp started. But it's not a question I particularly care about at this point.

 

Worse for him how? Why do you assume he even gives a shit what you think? All that matters is how the team performs in the World Cup.

 

OK. We agree.

 

The best way to handle guys like CR is to make them play defense. Who is more likely to do that? I take LD over Bedoya for that.

 

was at the game. he was ok. not bad. but since then has not been very good. and got 9 months older.

 

Worse for him in that it greatly increases his risk of being fired. If he could plausibly maintain that Donovan was in poor form, then it's easier to justify excluding him. Donovan's play on Saturday erased that rationale. If he were viewed as right to cut Donovan, than he probably keeps his job regardless of how we perform in Brazil. But if cutting Donovan is viewed as a mistake and the team performs poorly, Klinsmann faces an increased risk of losing his job. Maybe he doesn't care about being fired. That part I don't know.

 

he gets paid a lot of money if he gets fired.

 

Dude this was not a random appeal to authority this was pointing to the very real fact that JK gets paid to make personnel decisions. He gets to choose the guys he rides or dies with. He does not see LD in his plans and does not intend to put him on the field. Business, personal, whatever, that is a bunch of deflective mumbo jumbo rhetorical bullshit, when a person gets fired or forced into retirement it is always personal.

I never claimed to be a bigger fan either, I claim to have a firmer grasp on the reality of the situation and am looking forward to Brazil and life after Donovan. The era when nepotism comes of age.

 

You justify Klinsmann's cut of Donovan by pointing to the fact that he cut him. Circular.

Who is Donovan related to in USSF? Or do you not know what nepotism means?

 

He makes a lot of money if he stays. But if he is fired we have to pay out to bring in another coach also. Either way we are paying. It just means do the powers believe in Klinsmann.

 

He knew he was taking a risk and there would be consequences (though I do wonder if the level of attention has surprised him). And he knew the team would have to perform. Obviously he thinks they can. And yes, if they tank, he might be fired. But that comes with the job.

Going way back to what was discussed near the beginning of this epic thread, I think all this talk of whether or not Landon is one of the best individual players is beside the point. Sure Jurgen phrased it that way, but I think he's full of it.

What I think is true is that Donovan didn't fit into the team conception he was building. Landon is the guy everyone on the team knows is the guy they can depend on to come up big when they need it. So what happens when you remove that guy (who may not even be that guy anymore)? The other players need to step up and become that guy themselves. Removing Landon is a means to forcing the rest of the team to push themselves to that next level. So it's more a matter of group dynamics than individual ability.

That's the explanation that makes the most sense to me, but even if it's true I think Jurgen may have underestimated how much Donovan has left in the tank, and what we gain may not compensate for what we're losing.

 

I think the level of attention is minuscule compared to germany. the room had 20 reporters in it for the roster press conference. in germany it would be hundreds.

 

agreed, but c'mon, while we often like transparency in the decisions others make, especially if they are controversial, most of the time we just don't get it. this is one of those things which will never have a satisfactory answer, certainly not a consensus one (especially on BS).

as long as he has the backing of ussoccer, who has given him unprecedented latitude and is in love with him (i don't see that changing, maybe even with <2 points) , he can practically do whatever he wants as long as he doesn't totally put his foot in his mouth (and maybe even then). as we have seen, JK is pretty good at providing a narrative that is at least superficially plausible, especially considering the "kittens" of the us soccer media are really the only ones who have access to him.

i prefer landon on the team. and while i won't bemoan anyone's right to hash it out on BS, our thousands of posts will do exactly nothing to get him there.

 

Unfortunately, everything you say is true. Buzzkill.

 

That's his right as the coach. But if there are going to be 3-4 players that don't even see the field, would it be the end of the world to take the most significant player of his generation instead of one of those 3-4 players that won't get on the field, especially considering the experience he brings of getting it done on this stage, and the fact that he's still viably one of the best players on his own right?

 

He was MOTM by most accounts.

 

It was an allusion to the passing of the torch to Michael hence the reference to coming of age.

I did point to it being JKs perogative as the head coach and he is under no obligation to explain his reasoning to the media. He will live or die by reults. you might think that is circular, but it is reality. If he told you the reasons you would argue against them. you want there to be some objective criteria where a player checks off each little box and the guys with the most checked boxes get in the side. Coaching doesn't work like that and by its very nature is subjective.

If we make it out of the group in the world cup then I would say it is over and done with. If we do not make it out of group it might be revisited then. Maybe not, a lot of that may depend on what kind of buyout clause JK has and if anybody at USSF is willing to write a check for that.

I just do not want to ruin my four year build up crying over spilt milk. He has pulled some pretty crazy stuff that paid off so far, Alan Gordon anybody? His history suggests he is not one to fold at the sign of pressure or at critical times, I hope he keeps the string intact and we see some magic happen. I am not going to miss that moment or spend any time pining away for what could have been. It is what it is, it is here and it is time to get on with it.

If we get out of this group I believe we announce to the world we have come of age as a football nation.

 

How come people dismiss when Donovan looks good "because he's just facing MLS defending," but consider it an achievement when Dempsey is doing it?

Clint has had good games this season, but also a couple of games where he's been invisible. Including the Union-Sounders.

At any rate, Mix is Dempsey's #2, Zusi and Bedoya alternate as RM, Davis and Badoya as LM, Aron seems to be Wondo's competition, and Jozy probably would have Wondo cover for him, were he to get injured.

That's 2 CAMs, 3 FWs, 3 SMs. I don't see much use for Green, except as a situational super-sub (Shea's replacement). If Landon was indeed wanted only as a forward, then his competition was Wondo and AJ. Depends which one of those subs Jozy, the other is the guy who probably took Landon's place in JK's mind ("a specific forward"). I'd say it's AJ, who has a wicked shot (he can bend the ball superbly from distance).

So that's it. Still, as midfielder, I'd have taken him instead of Green, or if Green has shown he can be the scoring threat Shea used to be, late in a game against tired legs, then I guess Davis. Matter of fact, I suspect it was Davis who bumped Donovan out of midfield. Funny thing here: I think Brad Davis has been seriously under-rated around here. But a great defensive rate is something he doesn't have.

And we're going to notice when we play a rival who can actually attack,

 

I think even JK admits that most coahces would agree with your position. H also points out that he chose not to. We could speculate all day as to why, but it is not hard to envision a scenario where that could be a distraction in itself.