Joe Šimunić career-ending penalty

Discussion in 'BigSoccer Polls' started by hoffa989, Dec 17, 2013.

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Does Joe Šimunić deserve the severe penalty for "racist and discriminating" chants?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. No

    4 vote(s)
    80.0%
  1. hoffa989

    hoffa989 Member

    Nov 3, 2012
    As some of you might know, after Croatia-Iceland match (2:0, after 0:0 match in Iceland) Joe Šimunić, our 35 year old central defender, most famous for receiving 3 yellow cards in Australia (his homeland) match in WC 2006 in Germany, lead the chants "U boj, u boj, za narod svoj" and "Za dom, spremni!". The later - For homeland - ready" was considered as a fascist chant from WW2, where it was used by Croatian fascists - Ustaše (with some modifications, "For homeland and our Leader - ready!", reffering to Ante Pavelić), although the salute reaches back to 16th century, and was used in many variations. It was also used in Croatian Independance War 20 years ago.

    This chant was a standard fan chant when Croatian national team played for a long time, along with the "U boj" chant. There were never any problems, until now - and here's why I think why. Our minister of education and sports publicly criticized and fined Joe Šimunić for using a fascists greeting, and Joe was given the maximum fine of 25.000HRK. There was also pleads from Serbia that asked for a severe punishment for this actions. Now, when a minister of sports classifies an action as a crime, of course FIFA will follow. But that same minister failed to file a complaint against Serbian Football Association for a game played in Beograd in the WC Qualifiers. There war massive chants "kill/******** Ustaša", our national anthem couldn't be heard from all the whistling and booing, the official band that was performing the anthems accompanied the fans in singing Serbian military march song "Marš na Drinu" (this song was written during the WW1 after Serbian victories, but as the "Za dom, spremni!" chant, it was also used in WW2 and in Croatian Independance war), Croatian flag was burned, there was a huge sign saying "Vukovar" in cyrillic alphabet and there were also "Vukovar" chants during the match.
    Vukovar is a city in Croatia, near the Croatian-Serbian border, which was, during the Independance war, under siege for three months, and city was bombed with over 10.000 shells, many of them were aimed at the city hospital. After the city was taken by Serbs, a lot of survivors were taken to nearby hills, forests and villages and slaughtered and burried in mass graves.
    Now, game vs Iceland was played on 19th of November. 18th of November is the Day of Vukovar in Croatia. FIFA banned the "Remember Vukovar" banner in this match.

    Personally, I think none of this considers FIFA. The war ended not even 20 years ago, and it's normal that Croatian and Serbian people do not like each other in most cases. The nationalistic and provoking banners and chants are to be expected for some years to come. Serbian national team didn't have the warmest welcome in Zagreb either, but it wasn't as bad as in Serbia. But I think that the fact that our own minister said "There was nothing wrong" after the match in Serbia; and publicly attacked Šimunić after Iceland match helped FIFA determine the penalty - 30.000 Swiss franks, and 10 games ban for Joe. Also, he can't appear in any of the stadiums Croatia will play on in Brasil.

    I agree that he is a public figure, and that he should know better, and shouldn't have taken part in all that, but:
    1. "Za dom" is a regular chant on Croatia games, so I don't believe Joe had anything besides that in mind
    2. We played Iceland for Christ's sake - banning "Remember Vukovar" banner was pointless enough, and I don't think Iceland players and fans really did care about the chants, and that's what matters.
    3. After 12 years and 105 matches for Croatia, Joe wanted to retire from national football after Brasil. This penalty sent him to an early, dishonoured retirement, and forbids him to even trabel with the team and cheers them on.

    In that logic, Croatian fans should also be banned from Brasil, because "Za dom" was always a fan chant, and you can expect even more of that now this happened.
    I don't think the penalty appeal will do much, Joe's career will end with one big bad spot, because he wanted to share his joy with the fans - in a way they cheer for the team. He shouldn't have done that, I agree, but double standards in Croatian and Serbian matches, the clear ignorance of our sports minister Jovanović are a bad reason for an important player to be fined so drastically.

    So here's my opinion and explanation for some of you who don't know what all the fuss is about. I'd like to know the thoughts of neutrals in all this.
     
    microwaves repped this.
  2. Kebbie Gazauzkas

    FC Krasnodar
    Bulgaria
    Mar 29, 2007
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Bulgaria
    Thank you so much for providing the context and explaining the history of such chants, I agree with your points! I think that the punishment imposed on Šimunić was excessive - he should have received a warning and maybe banned from participating in one or two matches. There is no indication that
     
  3. Kebbie Gazauzkas

    FC Krasnodar
    Bulgaria
    Mar 29, 2007
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Bulgaria
    Thank you so much for providing the context and explaining the history of such slogans, I agree with your points, well put! I think that the punishment imposed on Šimunić was excessive - he should have received an official warning and maybe banned from participating in one or two matches. To put things into perspective – a footballer who tries to injure an opponent would likely receive a ban of 4-6 games, so being disqualified for the duration of a whole tournament because of a chant directed at his own supporters (rather than an opponent, it cannot be regarded as taunting) that is subject to interpretation/its exact meaning is unclear seems draconian. I don’t like it when an individual is made an example of - I also disagreed with the two-match ban issued (almost out of the blue) to Lithuanian midfielder Saulius Mikoliūnasforsimulation in 2007.
    There is no indication that Šimunić intended to incite violence against Serbs or other ethnic groups and it’s doubtful that he meant any harm (he got caught up in the heat of the moment and probably wasn’t thinking straight at the time). Šimunić seemed genuinely apologetic for what he did. Also, he has never before expressed sympathy for Nazism or condoned the actions of the Ustaša death squads.
    It’s often the case that players feel that it’s their duty to never disappoint their fans (there is the unwritten rule that a footballer should refrain from criticizing the actions of his own supporters). Perhaps the Croatian defender felt an urge to respond to chants from the crowd, he wanted to show them that he appreciates their support (and didn’t know what he was saying and didn’t realize that he could be hurting the feelings of Serbs or those from other Balkan nations). I would have preferred it if FIFA had fined the Croatian federation and required it to work together with fan clubs in order to purge rabid nationalism from football grounds. One player should not bear the brunt due to issues related to the ultra subculture.
    It’s sad that Šimunić (I am not sure what happened with the appeal, I suspect that a good lawyer may be able to get the decision overturned) will miss out on his last World Cup (though it’s theoretically possible that he could be in shape for the next one in Russia in 2018).
     
  4. Kebbie Gazauzkas

    FC Krasnodar
    Bulgaria
    Mar 29, 2007
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Bulgaria
    Thank you so much for providing the context and explaining the history of such slogans, I agree with your points, well put! I think that the punishment imposed on Šimunić was excessive - he should have received an official warning and maybe banned from participating in one or two matches. To put things into perspective – a footballer who tries to injure an opponent would likely receive a ban of 4-6 games, so being disqualified for the duration of a whole tournament because of a chant directed at his own supporters (rather than an opponent, it cannot be regarded as taunting) that is subject to interpretation/its exact meaning is unclear seems draconian. I don’t like it when an individual is made an example of - I also disagreed with the two-match ban issued (almost out of the blue) to Lithuanian midfielder Saulius Mikoliūnasforsimulation in 2007.
    There is no indication that Šimunić intended to incite violence against Serbs or other ethnic groups and it’s doubtful that he meant any harm (he got caught up in the heat of the moment and probably wasn’t thinking straight at the time). Šimunić seemed genuinely apologetic for what he did. Also, he has never before expressed sympathy for Nazism or condoned the actions of the Ustaša death squads.
    It’s often the case that players feel that it’s their duty to never disappoint their fans (there is the unwritten rule that a footballer should refrain from criticizing the actions of his own supporters). Perhaps the Croatian defender felt an urge to respond to chants from the crowd, he wanted to show them that he appreciates their support (and didn’t know what he was saying and didn’t realize that he could be hurting the feelings of Serbs or those from other Balkan nations). I would have preferred it if FIFA had fined the Croatian federation and required it to work together with fan clubs in order to purge rabid nationalism from football grounds. One player should not bear the brunt due to issues related to the ultra subculture.
    It’s sad that Šimunić (I am not sure what happened with the appeal, I suspect that a good lawyer may be able to get the decision overturned) will miss out on his last World Cup (though it’s theoretically possible that he could be in shape for the next one in Russia in 2018).

    (please disregard my two previous messages - due to typos/paragraphing issues & punctuation omissions - and post this one!)
     
    hoffa989 repped this.

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