German National Team News & Discussion Thread - EURO 2012 & Beyond [R] II

Khadira is a leader? Lmfao. I heard it all

 

Right now he is. Lars needs to progress which means playing for an elite club. Until he does, he shouldn't overtake Khedira no matter what.

I think he can surpass him though but he desperately needs to move on. Like now!

 

I don't expect you to get that but one question; do you misspell his name on purpose?

 

But he can't be a starter or a 90 minute player. That's the primary complaint but today it also showed that in a fast paced attacking team that does more than just counter he looks even more out of his element.

That's a HUGE concern.

 

Hmm I guess I saw the match in a different light.

1. It's a friendly in preparation to the WC; since when do we expect this team to play for the win here? This team has a number of things to work on, and that's what's been done today - as always in a friendly. When else can it be done? That's what friendlies are for, at least for German NT for as long as I remember (aside from show-off performance vs the Netherlands on 11/15/11).

2. From what I gathered, objective for the first half was to work on possession. I think the team did very well in that respect, and even created a goal after it's longest and best possession spell. I'm sure Low was very happy.

3. In the second half though, objective seemed to be for the team to work on defending against fast attacks. Possession was given up at will, defenders on the back-foot, tasked with thwarting a fast and dangerous attack before it gets into danger zones. I think the team failed at this task. They were not able to suppress Chilean attacks before key passes into the box were made, and didn't concede because Chile was wasteful.

4. Chile as an opponent was a wise choice. Fast, skillful, aggressive, and fluid in passing, this opponent was perfect to test and provide practice in the two above mentioned areas.

5. Unfortunately the spectators (here on this forum included) watch friendlies for entertainment value. Did we score a lot of goals? No. We're we excellent in attack and defense? No. Did we crush the opponent? Nope. Hence, we had a shit match, this team is shit, we are doomed for this WC. Let's be reasonable here, and understand that with just a few friendlies per year and only a couple left before WC, we can't afford to play a straightforward match for the win, without objectives and work on existing issues.

 

Would he be a good fit for Arsenal do you think? Not sure he can coexist with Ramsey. I'd like to see him at Chelsea actually. Mourinho would do so well with him.

 

I think Low must forget using Gotze or ozil in the middle and change the formation to bayern's.

Piggy-Kroos
Lahm

is better for holding position and starting the match, later he could put in more attacking minded player when needed. Or he could use gotze on the left wing if Reus is not available.

 

Bayern has run Götze on the F9 a handful of times and that's where he was in the 2nd half.

 

Before the season I would have said he would fit in at Arsenal. Now I'm not so sure.

Chelsea, yes would be excellent. Mourinho is the perfect manager for him. Man United would also be a good fit for him as they need another proper CM.

 

It was just an off-game from him just like many others, and he is rusty after the series of injuries this season. And lets dont forget Klose was injured (as well) during training two days earlier.

I think u have underestmated Klose's mobility and build-up game which doesnt hurt our team's fluidity up front. Klose is probably the best passing CF in the game plus he provides something the team lack which make the interchange more effective. As i've said, having 5 similar players with similar strengths and weaknesses do not form a synergy. But the case will be different when there is one X-factor in the system who brings new elements/dimensions to the game. Then, the interchange becomes useful

"False 9" should be a plan B. And a striker with good mobility, build-up game n vesatility as well as providing the lacked back-to-goal, hold-up play, aerial ability, positioning ability, killer instimct and clincial finishing should be preferred. In that case, Klose, Lasogga, Volland and Kiessling are our only options

But as i've said, playing with someone like Klose or Lasogga is not about Plan "A" or Plan "B", its more to do with complement. Our AMs lack back-to-goal, hold-up play, aerial ability, positioning ability, killer instimct and clincial finishing....so we need someone in the interchange system to provide the lacked attributes

Not a fan of Klose starting at CF. But we shall seriously try Lasogga up top. Too bad he was injured in training session. Thats another issue Loew n his coachign staff needa address, so many players got injured during DFB training. That shouldnt happen

 

With Klose it all looked to effin slow (I didn't watch much of the game, but from the portion of the first half I saw).
You have young, fast, hard working AMs and then you plop Klose up front, everyone slows down to his level, rather than him playing up. He can bring up all the hold-up play, back-to-goal, aerial ability he wants, but yet I don't think Germany are heavily reliant on crosses to the box ala Man Ure styel play. If Low is copying Guardoila's tactic, Klose doesn't fit the Mandzukic role IMHO, or the Lewy role at Dortmund, not even sure if he can provide the type of work Giroud does at Arsenal. At his age, I'd consider playing him as a pure poacher. If Lagossa can bring it at the top level then play him, but I'm skeptical of starting him in the World Cup, as he could do well or perhaps more likely crack under the pressure and have an anonymous performance or miss his chances. With the amount of quality in the midfield and the lack of experienced forward, I'm somwhat leaning towards a false-9 system, would be moreso if Low wasn't the trainer. Kiessling showed in the CL what he's capable of, only scoring against the BL defenses, doesn't warrant a call up to the World Cup. Volland and Lagossa if they can do it then great. BTW I heard Schurrle came in for Klose, did he play as a Striker, False nine, or did he drop to the wing and a midfielder move into the Striker/false-nine slot?

 

Ta

Germany arent heavily reliant on crosses to the box but its still an element to provide a diversed and allround offense. Please check out Mandzukic's numbers of goals from aerial attack this season, 6 from headers, 5 from volleys/bicycle kicks. Even Bayern Munich who people presumed to have play narrow n mostly on the ground, have quite a number of aerial goals from Mandzukic. Thats a myth, even Bayern Munich have many goals from different tactics. Not just short-passing n expect to shoot in opponenets six yard box

Diversed scoring abilities, positioning ability inside the box, back-to-goal, clincial finishing are really the problem Germany's offense are facing. Goetze missed 2 sitters (for Christ sake), always caught out of position up top, no diversity in scoring (no aerial attack, no first-touch finish)

Skeptical about Lasogga? We are already starting Grosskreutz in the lineup why cant we play someone with much higher potential n better form in Lasogga? Talking about missing sitters, we cant be worse with Goetze, Reus and Oezil who have been missing thousands of easy chances. If Goetze is a bit more clinical, we could easily win 3-0 earlier today. Lasogga's confidence n composure is unbelievable for a player of his age, so i think ur assumption that he cant make it is probably incorrect. and he brings many lacked qualities n attributes to the team offense.

Goetze/Schuerrle/Mueller/Oezil are much better midfielders than as a frontman

 

I think the problem may lie with the full back providing the crosses, Alaba and Rafinha/Lahm are familar with the movement of Mandzukic, and Lewy imho is on another playing level than most world-class strikers when it comes to hold-up play, whereas Schmelzer or whoever at LB and Grosskreutz/Lahm at RB providing crosses to Klose, not as much connection. I agree that if there had a fit player that had all the qualities that you mentioned, he would be playing there already, but unfortunately that is not the case. Didn't watch the match so I don't know. It's much harder to get good connection and link up play from players who play in completely different teams in different leagues where the tactics are different. Would like to see Volland or Lagossa move to a better BL club at least, personally BVB

 

I meant in terms of experience at the top level football ie. CL football. Grosskreutz, Reus, Gotze, Ozil all played international soccer with the NT and at top club level football, Lasogga is playing against BL defenses, he may be unbelievable at his age, but the pressure of playing at the World Cup is a daunting one, especially if you are burdened with the task of scoring in order for Germany to win the World Cup, the fear of failure and letting down an entire nation could be intense for a teenager who just broke into the first team. A player's confidence isn't something easily measured.

 

Lasogga. He is active, mobile, has good build-up n hold-up abilities as well as providing the lacked attributes in back-to-goal, positioning, clinical finishing, diversed scoring skill-set and aeiral ability

And he may work under the system, dont just assume he cant. He are still finding players to fill the holes, like Grosskreutz in the starting lineup. So Lasogga should still be tried, given he is twice a player Grosskreutz is, has a much higher ceiling, in much better form and fills the need of the NT.

 

Comparing Lagossa and Grosskreutz is pointless, they're two completely different players. One is a young striker with potential, the other is a man who is a fan favourite for his hard-work ethic which contributes to his two greatest qualities pressing and defensive work, and which is why he fits in Klopp's system. A team isn't made from having 11 players with great technique, some of them make it there from making up for it in other areas. On the ball he's not the most intelligent footballers, but he doesn't have the technique of a donkey as I have heard others say, I've seen him have his moments of good ball control this season at Dortmund. But comparing a Striker to a utility man used for defensive purposes. Grosskreutz this season hasn't committed any errors in my memory was a very solid deputy for Piszczek and imho did better than Schmelzer, who also finds his way into the line-up.
I don't think I said he can't succeed, but given the amount of time before the World Cup I don't have high expectations of him. I didn't assume he wouldn't make it into the squad, but perhaps I my post may have done that through my skepticism.

 

The point is, the team is experimnenting. Lasogga is active, mobile, has good build-up n hold-up abilities as well as providing the lacked attributes in back-to-goal, positioning, clinical finishing, diversed scoring skill-set and aeiral ability. So he fills a need

Lets be honest here. No German strikers will be starting for bigger clubs in the next generations onward, Bigger clubs will buy bigger names/star CFs from other countries. If u want a striker, especially for Germany, the striker will be from mid-table teams. Thats the reality.

Lewandowski/Mandzukic will be there for a while since both are realtively young, so BM wont hv a German strikers starting for years; Dortmund is an unkown yet but looks like Ramos will be the replacement, even Ducksch as a second choice wont be playign much. So dont expect German strikers will be from CL clubs, especially when they dont usually go abroad. Only 3-4 CL clubs in Bundesliga, all of them are foreigners so far.

So if u see an ideal CF candidate, n he fits a need, u needa call him up and dont think which team he's from. Situation is different for strikers

I agree with Wenger regardign the theory on strikers. He basically said experience is pointless for a striker, unlike defense (Grosskreutz? He isnt even playing RB for Dortmund but at RW/LW) . Playing at striker is an instinctive job so the striker is required to be fit, be lethal in front of goal n has the killer instinct which cannot be trained.

I think Oezil/Goetze have some serious issue in positioning n scoring instinct (cant be taught) and that really affect efficinecy and creat many missed sitters. clincial finishing may be a reason, but i think more to do with their instinct n positioning inside the box

 

Re-watched the match and here's a few thoughts.
Positives:
-Boateng. He's been immense over the last year for the National Team and he's a definite starter at CB for me. We simply can't afford to shift him out wide anymore IMO.
-Ozil on the right was better than I expected. As long as he has freedom to cut in and there are options inside he will be OK I think. However we won't be seeing the best from him there.
-Grosskreutz had a solid game. If he can keep up with Chile's fast paced game and pressing he should be fine at the WC.
Negatives:
-The midfield. I think the midfield was too fluid. None of Lahm, Schweinsteiger, or Kroos had a specific role or zone and it looked like they were free to roam wherever. While a certain amount freedom is important, it almost became anarchy with the lack of structure, and often times Lahm found himself way too high up the pitch and Chile had ample space to break into. What is the point of playing a 4-1-4-1 if the midfield can't control space properly?
-Klose. I haven't followed his situation in Lazio but it seemed like he was way off pace (or is that just his pace now?). Klose's always been great because of his energy and sheer will but he was lacking in both areas today.

In general this was a great friendly to have. Allows the team and Low to understand how much more work there still needs to be done to reach the top level. Chile are a top side, and if they had a proper center forward it would have been very different.

 

Only the fact that Grosskreutz isnt used as a RB for Dortmund. And experience for a defender is a lot more imprtant than for a striker (said by numerous coaches) as striker is more like an instinctive position while defenders cant afford to make mistake so expereince is key. Grosskruetz is hard-worker we all know but he isnt a solution at RB. I still find it hard to believe him defending Ronaldo, Neymar, Hazard and Ribery

Exactly the case for Lasogga

Reports were saying Loew was gonna start Lasogga against Chile if he wasnt injured in training (another issue about our training method, Klose/Lars Bender/Lasogga out injured after 3 days of training?). I think there must be a reason

And Lasogga is the kind of player who can be REALLY REALLY useful in our attack against chile for this friendly. Things could be a lot different

 

After watching this match.... All I can say is awful..

We should've lost 4-1..

I really don't think this team will win the WC.. I believe our talent alone will take us to the semis and that's where it ends..

We have no consistency across the board. The only sure thing is neuer.

We have a FB nightmare, we don't have a settled cb situation, we don't know who are midfield will be, we don't know who our "striker" will be... It's a complete mess..

I am sorry but I hate the idea of lahm in midfield, I don't like it at bayern and I hate it even more in the NT (where our fb crisis is HUGE). I hate the fact that lahm takes away from other players so we lose put out on our brightest takent upfront..

My choice would be this:

Neuer
Lahm Hummels (merte) boateng KG
Bastian Kroos
Reus ozil gotze
Muller

I think Kroos has matured tenfold to help bastian in the middle..

 

He looked similarly out of depth when he was "fit" for Lazio.

Uhh no.

I don't think his fitness is at the level he needs for an even more fluid and athletic-needy formation. It was already difficult enough for him to adjust to the 4-2-3-1 the older he got. He should just not start. Maybe as a sub he would be useful.

 

He won the U21 Euros as captain of the team...did you forget that? He stepped up into Ballack's role back in 2010 in S Africa and cought Jose Mourinho's attention and almost everyone else's...but...a hater's gonna hate. For fuck's sake, you can't even spell his name.