ARSENAL v United [R] Pre/Dur/Post Match Discussion :: February 12, 2014

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by generals soccer, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    what does this mean? [​IMG]

    each and everyone of those players give a crap. If you are playing like shit, you are playing like shit. All that passion when he backheeled it to Rooney which lead to a dangerous counter at the end of the game.

    There is a strong case that Jack was the worst player on the pitch today, for both teams. Mata, Rosicky, and Van Persie were in the running, but JAck was up there. He stunk it up. He has no tactical understanding right now and gives the ball away way more than he should.

    Rosicky, while awful, was the only guy who provided some direct play.

    he's only had 4 good matches this season.

    nonsense.

    we dont create enough chances. Giroud is what he is, but we have no pace around him. When Ramsey was in full flight, we scored. WHen we have this flaccid, tippy tappy football and no Ramsey chaos, we dont score.
     
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  2. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    it should be noted that both liverpool and man city play with 2 forwards and have scored BY FAR the highest amount of goals.
    saying that, it's a fine balance between playing 2 forwards and still having the ability to defend well.

    but, after saying THAT, since wenger doesn't ever appear to give a crap about defending, why aren't we playing with 2 forwards?
     
  3. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why use 2 forwards when you can have 5 pass first attacking midfielders.
     
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  4. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    #404 DaPrince84, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
    You can never hide your anti-Wumger agenda. It clouds everything you post from time to time.

    Even with giving up 5 and 6 goals in 2 matches this season, we have conceded 6 less goals than Liverpool, and a goal less than City. If you even watch Arsenal play, you can see Arsene has put an emphasis on defending. Shoot, you can even see it in the match today that defending was first. Its at a detriment at times, imo, but to say that "since Wenger doesnt ever appear to give a crap about defending" is like saying the sky is green.

    Secondly, lets go play 442. Lets try it. How do you line up? Bendtner or Sanogo up top with Giroud? How does a 442 look with this current batch of players?
     
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  5. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York

    never let facts get in the way of a good defecating on Wenger session.
     
  6. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Speed kills. We lack it. Simple. I've never been a fan of Theo and to build a team around him as the only speed option is folly. This team needs speed, power and technique at the Defensive mid, speed on the right wing, and striker with speed and power. The entire team is too slow. There is no movement in front of Ozil or Cazorla. Just abject.
     
  7. Boogie_Down

    Boogie_Down Member+

    Jul 7, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least Szczesny rejected rvp. There was at least a bright moment there.
     
  8. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Rio and Vidic thought it was 2008, ffs. They havent had it this easy in 3 seasons.
     
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  9. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Have to take time out to hail up the man dem Gibbo and Szczesny co MOTM for me. Keeper, Left centreback and Left back imho are the positions locked up long term (knock on wood). Much as I love Per, I'd get a young pace/power guy in there to eventually take his place.

    Gotta replace Arteta and Flamini, buy a guy to play longside Mr. Rambo. Sadly Diaby and Frimpong are dead to the game because they'd be good foils for Abdulay Ramsara.

    Jack just isn't very good with his decision making, people can use all kinda excuses but he's been pretty much terrible across the board this year save for some bright spots. He also holds the ball too long, I think part of that at least is that there's no quick movement around him/in front of him.

    Whole team just plays off Giroud and he's a snail. bloodfiyah we need some speed. I was watching Adebayor I'd give my left testicle hairs to have him back.
     
  10. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Clearly, you did not get the memo about modern football . . . the goal is now just another piece of space to pass into.
     
  11. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yup, our great teams had technique but also had speed. It's a bit of the reason I want to see Poldi and Ox get more minutes. They'll give us more of a cutting edge. I can't remember if they were on the bench tonight, but I don't know why we don't give them 10-20 minutes at the end to see if their pace can make a difference. Gnabry too. I don't know what Opta is telling Wenger about Ozil's work rate but I don't think there's much harm in keeping him to 70 minutes.
     
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  12. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Despite some opposition, I still think that players who are standing with their hands on their knees can be subbed off. Running is important.
     
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  13. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    Well this is when I jump off the Arsenal for the EPL title wagon. We won't make it through these tough fixtures when we have problems surfacing like this. Our defence cannot carry us when we don't have a good attack with Santi's and Giroud's inconsistencies, Ozil's lack of support, no Theo, Ramsey and January striker.
     
  14. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    #414 lamb, Feb 13, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
    and yet, strangely, i haven't called for wenger's head (or even made much comment on it. possibly 1 on not offering a contract during the season) since i gave my opinion of where i thought he needed to be by the start of january to justify keeping his job this season....(and that was probably 4 months or more ago)

    tell me, since you want to counter a comment about goals scored (made in relation to arsenal's sometime inability to do so), what are the respective goal differences?
    in case you missed it, i did say it was a fine line between increased scoring and increased conceding.
    in case you missed it, i advocated wenger playing to his historical strengths, but don't let what was in front of you get in the way of a sly dig and a whine.

    so, your telling me arsenal is a defensive manager? the games where arsene sets out with a particular emphasis on defence we either don't win many of and/or (sorry to say but this is the impression i get) against teams he seems scared of. if you don't know by now that wenger has always been an attacking manager (usually quite successfully) and usually with a blind spot regarding defence, then i can't help you. you say we've been more defensive this season, but is that down to wenger? has he had some some of miraculous conversion....or is it more likely that we have pretty decent players in defence and a new assistant manager who might know how to use them better? i'll let you decide...

    as for 442.....i didn't say go 442 (btw. liverpool don't set out with a 442 but in reality they have 2 forwards), nor did i say to do it now, nor did i say to do it with the current players.
    for the record, just to appease you, it is possibble to go 442 with the current players, but it wouldn't be using all of the strongest players at the club.

    anyway, whatever nonsense floats your boat. you carry on. "wenger out!"?


    i really stuck it to him, didn't i? (*sarcasm....or more appropriately, disdain)
     
  15. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    #415 DaPrince84, Feb 13, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
    should we applaud you for this? You still are anti-Wumger and that post showed it.

    Id rather play winning football. The type we have played this season, and the type you bashed him for not playing in the past.

    almost exactly not what I said. I disagreed with the statement " since wenger doesn't ever appear to give a crap about defending," because for the last 12 months his tactics have shown that he does give a crap about defense. He has cared in the past obviously, but this period has shown it almost exclusively.

    remember everyone Lamb is not anti-Wenger. He credits the players and the assistant manager for the improved defensive form. Not the person who hired those people. Im sure Wenger sits back and says "bouldy, you go ahead and handle the defending since I do not care." And what makes this funny to me is that Lamb -- and a few otehr Arsenal fans -- will say that Wenger doesnt control teh defensive tactics yet also call him a control freak for transfers, and how the club is ran. HE has too much control of the club and doesnt listen, yet doesnt control his own tactics. The crux of Wenger criticisms has been how controlling he is, yet apparently he sits back and let the players and assistant manager decide tactics. That makes absolutely no sense yet Lamb --- and others who dont like Wenger --- strongly believe this. Its why I dont bother much with these convos much because those fans cannot make their minds up and are so scatterbrained.

    what is this? you've suggested going 442 a few times this season, and cannot put up a lineup. This is hilarious, lol

    only because it looks stupid to say "Wenger out" this season, no? The tone of your posts say the complete opposite, but keep on broski. I am sure once if we dont win silverware this season, you will become louder and louder with wanting Arsene out, again.
     
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  16. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Speaking of 4-4-2 who would we play in that lineup???
     
  17. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #417 NorthBank, Feb 13, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
    This.

    Actually he wasn't so SECRETLY pleased. In the post-match interview clip I saw he had his little wry smile on. Unbelievable that he was happy with a draw. The fans sure weren't!

    And not using Poldi is one of the biggest mysteries... all I can figure is that Poldi crossed him big time and is inthe perpetual dog house. Or else Wenger & Giroud are lovers.
     
  18. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    The favorite striker is always the guy on the bench
     
  19. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Could be true I suppose and if so would probably be smart, prudent, etc. BUT this would be quite out of character for Wenger. He too often overuses his key players so much, driving them into the ground, until they get injured.
     
  20. GunneRy

    GunneRy Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Chicago
    A day later and a point don't seem too bad.

    I'll be much happier, as I think will all Arsenal fans, if we actually come out motivated and invigorated on Sunday.
     
  21. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    #421 lamb, Feb 13, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
    what a waste of space post, full of wishful thinking and baiting attempts.
    i mean, really, someone saying wenger is a manager with an large attacking bias or to even suggest playing 2 upfront (something that might play to a wenger strength) forces you to feel a need to rant, to invent comments and to more or less pretend the poster expresses a view even more distanced from yours, just to fit your perception, probably so you can post an even bigger rant full of inaccuracies and more baiting. really, daprince?
    there may be some point in there somewhere, but whatever it is is lost with your attempt at a personal attack (god knows what exactly it is that is so wrong with people not having the same viewpoint as you).

    i asked you about goal difference. you pretty much ignored it. you think there has no value in discussing whether playing 2 forwards might have helped us capture a few more points vs losing a few, given that 2 close competitors who do play 2 up front have scored many more goals but only conceded a few more than we have? i quite happily said it was a fine line. i already acknowledge it's a balancing act with pros and cons for both and about personnel.

    it would have been too hard to say "no, i don't think 2 forwards would have made the breakthrough in those games we already had difficulties getting that important goal in"? or "no, i think that would leave our midfield too thin and liable to being overrun"? (all reasonable reasons).
    but you, daprince, take a different road. you try to invalidate a pov by undermining a poster, not a post. it's pretty sad really.

    got any of those quotes where i've suggested 442 this season? (i'll wait while you find them)

    as for posting a lineup, ok, although you seem to have completely ignored the important part where i said
    1) i didn't suggest it with the current squad or
    2) suggest it be done now or
    3) that it wouldn't be our best players in it
    ....but ok, i'll post a weak one up for you from the players at the club right now:
    ...........................................usual back 5........................................
    gnabry/chamberlain...ramsey..flamini...chamberlain/cazorla
    .................................giroud............podolski...................................

    i agree with you, i think you shouldn't bother with these conversations either because, to be honest, you seem to find it difficult to partake in them without trying to be a smartass and you tend to go for the man, not the ball, as a means to promote your argument. of course, it would also help quite a bit if you didn't just invent comments that weren't made just to fit your spiel.

    as for "wenger out", if i were 100% on that view i wouldn't even have set a target i'd like to see, would i? saying that, i'm mostly of the opinion that his contract shouldn't be renewed and maybe it's the right time for a change. i'll make my mind up at the end of the season, but what i do strongly feel is that no new contract should be offered/signed mid-season.

    ps. take your time finding those quotes. i'm interested to see what you come up with.
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Of course City have one of the best players in the world in Aguero who is the kind of beast who can play both as a genuine midfielder and a forward at once....

    They don't look so clever with Dzeko :D
     
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  23. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's not so much speed of foot as speed of though and incisiveness of movement. The movement simply wasn't there yesterday, and that's because the likes of Wilshere, Cazorla, and Rosicky (and for that matter Ox and Gnabry) simply don't make those runs in behind in the channels that create space. That leaves it to the fullbacks to attack the channels, and that's a recipe for disaster.

    Theo makes those runs. It's what makes him so devastating.

    Blaming Giroud or the lack of pace is all well and good (and I think the lack of pacy directness is a serious issue), but the bigger issue is that none of our incredibly technically gifted midfielders know how to make runs to get in behind a defense.
     
  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Look at all the chances Ozil created for Theo in their first game together.
     
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  25. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I've said this before too—that our movement has dried up. Arteta and the pivots are having trouble linking up with our front players mainly because there's no advanced movement. Contrast early in the season, when an Arsenal player looked up in midfield he has at least one option to play to. Now, it's not there—there's no one to play to.

    In the league, we have only failed to score 3 times, I believe. Not bad for 26 games in. One way to look at it is this indicative or is it an anomaly? We've consistently scored about 2 goals per game stretching back to mid-December. So we're not exactly lighting it up but getting wins nonetheless. 2 goals per game is not a high bar, so I think we can maintain as long we maintain that defensive solidity.
     

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