834 minutes he's played and started 11 games (a little less than half of all competitions i think) He's played more minutes than the following players: Eto'o - 744 Schurrle - 654 Willian - 798 And he's only a bit behind in minutes played to: Torres - 993 Luiz - 903 Dave - 1002 Everyone seems to get emotionally charged up on this topic. Much like the Luiz one. I understand liking Mata and the arguments in his favor. I think a lot of faith has been put into Jose. If he was doing something that the board and/or Roman did not like, I think they would overrule him.
Jose must see him in practice. He may not be getting time in matches but he certainly has to see him in scrimages/practices/etc. I dont think Mata is cut out for Jose's system. An incredible player who just doesnt seem to fit the current system. No way should we sell him until summer as that would leave us short handed and I dont want to see Rami out on the wings again as that was.....painful.
I am one to assume that Jose and the entire coaching staff are pretty competent and know what they are doing. Like what @Bruckner283 said...They see him every day, all day. He's getting his fair shake, I'm sure.
i think Oezil is a good comparison if we're going to talk about price personally. very similar. Mata did fine defensively when we played a very low block and absorbed pressure, and he was not part of the two blocks of four. we essentially went into a 4-4-2 when we defended with mata being one of the two. we didn't really press in that defensive system either. he was asked to do something completely different. now, why Jose seems to want to stick him out wide right and ask him to do a pressing job then be surprised when that doesn't work is beyond me. i still think he could play a major role in the team though. it's hard to look at his talent and say "i can't fit him in anywhere" which is essentially what jose seems to be doing. i think it just adds even more to the argument that you should try Oscar in the pivot. however, with Matic, we don't really need to experiment with that as much anymore. i still think that a mata playing through the middle can do the defensive job asked of in that position. on the wing, no, he can't. now, that pushes Oscar somehwere else of course, but we've seen those two, plus hazard, do well enough with rotating that it really shouldn't matter too much from an attacking standpoint, and if that means Oscar has more responsibility defending on the wing, it's something that he CAN handle. just frustrated to see a player of Mata's quality and likeability being marginalized, and in my opinion, he should not be calling any other team in the premier league home.
another thing to consider, which may just be wishful thinking on my part, is that the Matic signing frees up the midfield #10 to be a bit more creative, meaning, it allows Mata to do his thing more and puts less defensive pressure on that position. it could be that Oscar was needed there as jose was not feeling we had adequate cover behind that position and need a more aggresive player there to help out. it's not outside of the realm of possibility. but, these reports are starting to worry me. us only asking 32 mil, in my mind, has to be a made up number. we have to know we could get more, and if that number is fake, then the entire report could be as well. also: while mata would do a lot for united, he'd be far from the essential cog the team needs. they needed Matic more than we did. they need true CMs. they've got both Rooney and kagawa that can play where mata would if needed. while i'm sure they'd love to have mata, they have more pressing concerns.
Where on earth did you pull those numbers from? None of them are accurate. Here is where you can find all the accurate minutes and stats of each player: WhoScored.com In all competitions: Mata has only played 676 minutes so far this season Eto'o has played 1164 minutes (and he's been rotated with two other strikers) Torres has played 1313 minutes (again, and he's been rotated) Schurrle has played 1144 minutes I'm not going through and adding up the minutes per game for everyone else you mentioned, but I knew even at first glance that the numbers you posted could not possibly be accurate for this season, which is the only season I'm concerned with, obviously. There's no way you could have watched this season up until now and seriously believe that Mata is only slightly behind Torres in the number of minutes played.
^this This is why i think 40 Mil for Mata is high. Not that he isn't worth that, because he CAN be. He's ultimately worth what someone is going to pay for him. He's not going to be that MASSIVE difference for any team that would remotely consider paying his fee. I definitely don't want to see him go anywhere else in the EPL.
He would get shunted to the left wing pretty fast and while he can play there it isnt his best position. Mata is a statement buy to appease fans for their disappointing season thus far. Couldnt agree more that they have more pressing concerns (not just in midfield but in defense as well).
I grabbed the first thing I found on google. The point being, he's played a decent amount. You were saying we've LITERALLY not seen him play. Its those types of emotionally charged responses that always show up when debating the worthiness of Mata or Luiz. I've just taking the other side for argument's sake I trust the Chelsea coaching staff and Jose know what they are doing. If this were Rafa/Moyes/et al, they have proven incompetence.
Fair enough, I used the word "literally" inappropriately. But it's not an "emotionally charged" argument to suggest we've seen so little of his play this season that it's ridiculous to conclusively say that he cannot adjust to our system.
i'd just like to add, that if this sale goes through, and jose's idea is to soften them up to try to get rooney at some point, then the deal is even worse than i could imagine. in my opinion, rooney isn't a player we should be in for at this point.
agreed, he's a statement buy that could be just what united need to get back in the game of being a desireable team to transfer to. because right now, the evidence is to the contrary, and i'd prefer not be part of the lifeline he would give them on multiple fronts. not that i wish them the illest of fates, but strengthening opponents is bad for business. not only would they get an amazing player, they'd get the confidence that comes along with being a force in the market again. that statement of intent goes a long way in my opinion.
^ Agreed. I'd rather have Mata playing in the role Rooney plays, anyway. And we don't need Rooney has a center forward with Lukaku returning next season and we have enough strikers as it is (some of whom are in good form, atm) Also - Eto'o made it known today that he is not remaining with us past this season, and wants to reunite with Mallorca in the summer Not a surprise, I guess. Didn't think his one year deal would be extended
Just like with KDB, Mata is practicing with Jose watching his progress. Maybe Mata just doesn't get it. Maybe he does in practice and doesn't translate into games. I'd like to think that Jose is making his decisions based on performance but who knows.
Exactly. Unless they offer something crazy, we have no need to sell him at his value price. And to a rival (well currently Everton's rival anyway)
The way these rumors are twisting and growing every minute is more indication than anything that these pundits and journos must be taking creative license to make this up shit WAGNH has the story on yet another twist to the Mata saga, this one involving Atletico's supposed hijacking of Moye's attempt to sign Mata in exchange for rights to Diego Costa and Filipe Luis http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation....starring-juan-mata-diego-costa-and-filipe-lus Give me a break
Selling Mata for 37m is silly. He is at an age where his best is still to come, he has proven himself in spain and england and in europe. And, he has had the most assists in the prem for the last two season and I believe on Ozil had more in europe. His fee should be ~50m pounds IMO. I do rate Ozil as a slightly better player, however Ozil's transfer was different. He was being pushed out of the club basically to fund the Bale deal. If it was known in the beginning of the summer that he was available I'm sure he would have went for 50m+ but it was last minute and the options were limited, clubs already made their transfers. So with that said, if we sold Mata to United they would have to pay us 50m pounds, he is more than 2x the player he was when we bought him. The way Jose is handling this is silly as well. Mata is such a phenomenal player that he should be able to work him and integrate him into his plans.
HAHA, preaching to the choir bud. i think everyone can get behind this. and the point about Ozil's transfer is a decent one. though it's obvious that that last part isn't quite as simple as we all hope and think that it should be.
This, pls. 50 million is the least I would consider for Mata, and that's if I'm considering selling him. And I'm not.
Some news about Courtois to keep me from perseverating on Mata. http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/21/atlet...aut-courtois-says-boss-diego-simeone-4272349/ Why can't we just play Mata as a false 9? This is mainly a rhetorical question, but previous weekend notwithstanding, I have often thought we might as well trot him out there as striker - we won't win any aerial duels in the box - but that isn't really our game now is it? He certainly can hold the ball and combines well with midfielders.
The only scenario I see here is selling them Cech for a high fee and pulling Courtois back. Courtois has too much upside to be let go for 20 mil.
Can't help but agree with this. Three reasons I can think of separate from it are rather far fetched like 1. Chelsea showing pity on united's miserable season(gesture of arrogance) 2. Does not regard them as rivals now & third is like the usual bs of taking points off rivals. The really depressing fact is for the past years Chelsea has taken some baffling decisions, gone on with a small squad & I fear this is another. Lots of politics go on at times whether we know full accounts of them or not, but with club being in a state where nothing gets out in public we will never know what really go on. Frankly the most logical reason I find is despite what is said, club is in desperate state re meeting FFP & wants to curb that 50mn loss by selling.