Off-Season Roster Moves: Trades, Free Agents, MLS Draft and Academy

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by Woodrow, Nov 8, 2013.

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  1. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #651 kokoplus10, Jan 20, 2014
    :confused:

    :confused: He isn't even listed there.
    http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/May 15, 2012 Salary Information - By Club.pdf

    And it's pretty well known that the DP's are at half max cap hit ~$175k for a half season. Full season they're currently at $369k.

    Zero way? No. Is it difficult to project? Absolutely.

    That's because someone else was paying part of his salary. So his hit against us was minimal last season and was going to be full blown this year. For everyone CURRENTLY on the roster there aren't any other teams paying their salaries (I think...). We have a few guys with new deals and guys like Sekagya who re-negotiated their contracts, but it's still worth the exercise to get a BALLPARK idea of where we stand.

    In fact, it's almost easier this year since the Ream transfer money has surely run it's course. Allocation is the only thing that pisses me off since the league doesn't announce it...but we can still assume a ballpark figure.
     
  2. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #652 kokoplus10, Jan 20, 2014
    If he works hard that's all we can ask. Not much will be expected from a second round pick (especially in his first year). If he can become an MLS bench warmer for life that will already be a good accomplishment. You need guys to come in and provide a spark or close out games. That will be his first goal.

    Best of luck to him. I promise not to ride him too hard if he makes some mistakes early on. ;)
     
  3. FlipsLikeAPancake

    FlipsLikeAPancake Member+

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #653 FlipsLikeAPancake, Jan 20, 2014
    So....I'm guessing you didn't happen to notice that the salary information you're quoting says right in the link "May 15, 2012 Salary Information." Since Cahill didn't arrive until July 2012, of course he isn't listed.

    But if you look at the salary info from October 1st, 2012, Cahill makes $3,624,999.92 in guaranteed compensation. Then if you look at the September 15 2013 salary info, he makes $3,625,000.00.

    Since he only played half of 2012, I think we can reasonably assume his actual salary was a prorated portion of that $3.625 million. I believe it's the same with other midseason signings - the number listed is what their annual salary would be.
     
    iced1776 repped this.
  4. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #654 iced1776, Jan 20, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
    We don't even know that much, how could we? Everyone assumed Chivas was only going to pitch in for 2012, then it turned out that they paid through 2013 as well, how can we possibly say that it wouldn't have been the same in 2014 and we just cut him because of the injury? I'll even take it a step further - Alexander has carried the same contract from Dallas to Portland to us, how can we be sure that there wasn't some cost sharing involved there? What about Dax and the mysterious "Retention Funds", do we even know what his full salary is and how much of it counts against the cap?

    Saying that the true cap situation is "difficult to project" makes it sound like its possible but requires a lot of work to gather all the details. In reality, we flat out don't know all the details, they just aren't provided to us because the team/league receives minimal media coverage and MLS does all they can to hide those details behind closed doors. The player salaries give you a good foundation for a high-level overview, and occasionally we'll hear about the intangibles surrounding a player's contract, but that's as far as we get. Everything after that is pure guesswork, and for me there's just too much of it to even make the effort worthwhile.
     
  5. metz

    metz Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    #655 metz, Jan 20, 2014

    You have that "Meaculpa" of this DP's salaries for ever....But for the matter of Cahill salary is a 3.5 million dollar player and is a obligation of they union to let the player and the fans know how much this player are making in case if regular player are rendering a good job a la par or better than this DP's players to have a right to demand more for they services.... That is what when I refer to the salary of this player I write the amount of what they are earning for playing with the team and not only what the CAP is affected for they salary, because when I talking about they salary I'm not talking about how much the CAP is spending on him, is how much the team is spending on him.....
     
  6. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #656 kokoplus10, Jan 20, 2014
    $hit you're right. Missed that.

    Regardless, we all know what the hit against the cap is for a DP. And we know it's half that for a half season. That's probably one of the easiest things to figure out about all this.
     
  7. FlipsLikeAPancake

    FlipsLikeAPancake Member+

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #657 FlipsLikeAPancake, Jan 20, 2014
    Indeed. Reportedly the DP cap hit will be $387,500 this year. So if we sign a midseason DP after the world cup, it'll cost us $193,750 of cap space.
     
  8. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #658 kokoplus10, Jan 20, 2014
    Whoa whoa whoa. Wait a minute. I thought we had figured out his entire salary was on our books for next year if we picked him up. Wasn't it reported management didn't want Espindola, Pearce, and Hulk back for salary concerns? And that Barklage was a "tactical decision"?

    Because it was never reported that they were picking up part of his contract. If memory serves it was reported was that he was acquired for allocation money only.

    Fair enough. But only 14 players in the league qualified for it and he was the only one on our roster. It's not like all 30 players were payed with retention funds.

    I like puzzles.

    So consensus is because it's difficult to project we should stop trying? WTF else am I supposed to do with my work day?!

    Well if no one else gives a dump I guess I'll stop. I thought it would be interesting to give us SOME kind of framework to guess at potential moves.
     
  9. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #659 kokoplus10, Jan 20, 2014
    That's fine, but we're only talking about the cap hit for each player in order to see what funds are currently available.
     
  10. theENFORCER

    theENFORCER Member

    Apr 10, 2010
    NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #660 theENFORCER, Jan 20, 2014
    Does anyone know if there was a transfer fee involved with Agudelo and if possibly we'd get anything from it?

    Either way like the moves so far. Draft picks look solid and signing the Spanish CB solves depth issue and I don't think he's making that much.
     
  11. lkgf09

    lkgf09 Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #661 lkgf09, Jan 20, 2014
    Agudelo was out of contract and left on a free transfer. So we are shit out of luck on that front.
     
  12. jeremydneezy

    jeremydneezy Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    Greenville, SC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #662 jeremydneezy, Jan 20, 2014
    I enjoy the leg work you do very much, @kokoplus10. I think it allows us to have an idea of the type of roster moves available to us.
    Regarding Lozano, I would believe that an older guy from Liga Adelante, ostensibly signed for depth purposes, should not be getting paid much more than 100k. If he is getting paid 200-plus I have to question the logic of that expenditure.
    If the 350k estimate is true then I would think RBNY has the room to sign one more starter-level type player in addition to Lozano. It will be interesting to see where that money goes.
     
  13. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #663 Woodrow, Jan 21, 2014
    The word is that retention funds are around $225K as reported here. Although the league is not confirming, it would make sense that it would be in that $200-250K range. That's enough to give one or two players a healthy bump and yet not go too crazy or even break the bank. $250K times 19 teams is $4.75 million a year, which is certainly affordable for a league that is growing and in need of retaining some of its talented veteran players.
     
  14. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #664 Woodrow, Jan 21, 2014
    One more thing, keep in mind the allocation funds achievable by not filling all 26-30 roster spots.
     
  15. tigersoccer2005

    tigersoccer2005 Member+

    Dec 1, 2003
    North Bergen, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #665 tigersoccer2005, Jan 21, 2014
    Does anyone know if the Red Bulls currently hire a "cap specialist"? I think that although it is not absolutely necessary it does tend to make life easier for clubs that do.
     
  16. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #666 iced1776, Jan 21, 2014
    Ha sorry, didn't mean to be quite so discouraging, maybe a little frustration with MLS transparency on my part...
     
  17. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #667 iced1776, Jan 21, 2014
  18. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #668 Woodrow, Jan 21, 2014
    I'm guessing an experienced, non-starter like Lozano is going to be making $100-125K, 150 would be a lot for him.
     
  19. metz

    metz Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    #669 metz, Jan 21, 2014

    And who is Sidney Govou?.....
     
  20. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #670 Woodrow, Jan 21, 2014
    A Google search?
     
  21. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #671 kokoplus10, Jan 21, 2014
    We'd still be saving 50k over what we would have paid Holgersson. I agree that's not much, and it's kind of an insult, but if management was absolutely certain they could replicate his performance AND save 50k then it's a no brainer. I'm sort of agreeing with everyone else's opinion though. I bet both Sekagya's new deal and this new guy come in around 150k each MAX.

    $225k would cover all of Dax's salary. So if the league paid all of Dax's salary last year does that mean they pay all of it for the remainder of his current contract, or is it only a 1 year/1 time deal?

    If it's for the remainder of his contract that just freed up some significant cash. We could go out and get 2 guys who are the real deal and still have the funds to bring in a DP at the break (or 1-2 reasonably priced guys at the break).

    No worries. Believe me the allocation money thing as well as the way they're making up the DP rules on the fly are absolutely infuriating. Especially since the Don said he wants more transparency.
     
  22. FlipsLikeAPancake

    FlipsLikeAPancake Member+

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #672 FlipsLikeAPancake, Jan 21, 2014
    Let's also not forget that we don't know how much Holgersson was set to make next year. Perhaps he had an Espindola-esque salary jump built into his contract.
     
  23. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #673 kokoplus10, Jan 21, 2014
    FlipsLikeAPancake repped this.
  24. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #674 Woodrow, Jan 21, 2014
    One small quibble. I'm not so sure that the retention funds were so much about what Dax made last year. Yes, he did somewhat better than 2012 (about 30K in guaranteed compensation), but that was probably already going to be the case. He was signed to a contract extension in early 2013, which I'm sure allowed for a healthy increase in his salary and probably tapped the funds. We can't know for sure what that means, but my speculation is it allows him to make something closer to 275-300K, without causing further cap headaches for the club. Perhaps he even got that bump built in last year, but they aren't disclosing it. Or conversely, because it was an extension of an existing deal, the real jump is this year and it will be reported when the initial salary figures come out. At this point, Dax is one of the few Red Bulls that are young enough as vets to qualify for the funds, Alexander is the only other obvious player at the moment. My guess is the Bulls are using a good chunk to make him happy and giving a pretty good raise at that. But, I doubt they are using it solely to zero out his salary, just to keep the cap hit in a range that is manageable.
     
  25. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #675 kokoplus10, Jan 21, 2014
    So what you're saying is we don't know if MLS was either using retention funds to pay his full reported salary ($223k), OR if MLS gave the Red Bulls retention funds on top of his $223k salary and that $223k did indeed count against our salary cap.

    It could be either way is what you're saying...yes?
     
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