The Education Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by saosebastiao, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Private schools are for kids who aren't good enough in math to compete with the Asians.
     
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  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Which School system is responsible for Mak9?
     
  3. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Mako? What cultural reference am I missing?
     
  4. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now that I'm awake, let me explain to you why you are wrong.
    1 - Despite what the comments section on that video say, match involves critical thinking, not just memorization. It is understanding the process.
    2 - The person in the video says that the kids still need to understand the correct answer (did you read the transcript or even listen to the video?), but that the emphasis is on the thinking. Let me quote:
    3 - This is very necessary for future classes. I've had students who knew that 3 * 4 = 12, but didn't know how to figure out that 3x = 12. I've had students who could see that 3x = 12 and that x = 4, but didn't understand how they solved the problem, so when they got the problem 3x + 7 = 22, they were lost. And then I had students who could explain how they knew that 3 * 4 = 12, understood how to solve 3x = 12, and were able to figure out, without and example, that in 3x + 7 = 22 that x =5. It is called critical thinking.
    4 - What the person is saying, that the parent asking the question doesn't understand (and apparently you don't either), is that this is about science. Think physics. Think chemistry. Think balanced equations. Even biology has plenty of this stuff.
    5 - As a social studies teacher, students who understand math better tend to be able to write better essays and make better arguments when faced with a challenging question.
    7 - Are you going to refute all 6 of my above points.
     
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  5. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I want to add that we teach very little new mathematics after fourth grade and before 9 th grade. There is plenty of room to teach some theory or the why things work, otherwise referred to as proofs. When we learn to think abstractly we are miles ahead of just manipulating numbers that any calcualtor can do. We need to teach how things relate to each other. Maybe understanding simple concepts like the formula for the area of a triangle is basically half the formula for a rectangle because a rectangle divided by a diagonal line makes two triangles.
    If we place the triangle so thaqt it makes three triangles then the smaller two equal the larger and the three together equal the area of the rectangle. It is a very small thin then to show the proof of pythagorean theorem geometrically.

    Sometimes with all the emphasis on testing we forget that education is supposed to be more than regurgitation of facts. Students need to be able to think and solve problems in the real world. Part of our poor performance is due to lowered expectations.

    One of the most fascinating techniques I have learned as a teacher is error analysis. This is what the clip was most likely alluding to. It is important to know how/why the student got the answer they did. Did they get the asnwer 11 because they do not understand the concept of multiplication for some reason or is it a simple miscalculation?
     
  6. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
  7. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
  8. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    American Brummie repped this.
  9. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    OK Arne you can start the improvement by resigning.
     
  10. GiuseppeSignori

    Jun 4, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a teacher, and one who has looked into this (and I believe we discussed this last year as well), it does clearly show the slippage of the US educational system. The US has, on average, been on the downturn in science and mathematics for 40+ years. One of the reasons that the America At Risk report was written was the (assumptive) slippage of US educated students. What America At Risk said was, basically, that we need standardized tests to better measure academic ability/progress. (And why not, standardized test have been around for about 2000+ years - think the ancient Chinese.) What the report failed to identify was the number of non-instructional issues that effect education, such as a stable living environment, violence in the neighborhood, and even nutrition. These all effect the lower income students, who largely need higher levels of money to be able to meet the needs that are not supported elsewhere in the student's life.

    Now, what is also known is that students who have quality day care and preschool are more likely to do better in school then those that done. Yet, even with the currently levels of funding for those programs (and those programs prior to the sequestration), families with money had access to better early childhood education, a more stable living environment, far, far less violence in the neighborhood, and massively better nutrition. Add to that, higher income parents have already achieved a good level of education, and know what to ask and how to help (even if the help is poor, they know it is necessary).

    What most industrialized countries know is that the quality of a society is the level at which the poor live and operate. The single exception is the United States. Thus, states/nations with more money/income, have more money to spend on education, which leads to better education, which is an upwards cycle. Yet the value that people have on Education in the US is fairly low. One of the long standing symbols is the standardized test. Unfortunately, professional educators, the ones who actually teach, are not listened to in this matter. So this leads to lowering, on average, of educational scores when compared internationally.
     
  12. GiuseppeSignori

    Jun 4, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you haven't listened to the This American Life episode that recounts how universal pre-k quietly was passed in Oklahoma (yes, Oklahoma), it's well worth a listen.

    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/477/getting-away-with-it
     
  13. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    This belongs in the Racism thread. But ....

    The top 4 countries the in the recent global science/math tests are Asian. There are no more Asian countries. Every other country lags.

    In all 50 states, Asians have the highest math scores on SATs of any ethnic group.

    So if it is all about teacher and school quality, and Arne and Obama and George W. Bush are correct, then please address.
     
  14. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1 - The top 4 "countries" are Singapore, S. Korea, Japan, and Lichtenstein, though Chinese Taipei certainly acts as a separate country.
    2 - I think you mean East Asian, but the Singapore wouldn't count
    2a - Vietnam is one place below Germany and 9 places above the US.
    3 - 3 of the top 6 are cities in China, not the country as a whole.

    Do you mean the highest average scores, highest median scores, or highest raw scores. Further, out of the top 50 (or 100, or whatever), I'd be interested to see the break down. Additionally, as I noted above, what is the breakdown on the bottom groupings.
     
  15. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    That's a different list than I saw. The top 4 countries were South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, and Japan on my list. No cities.

    Wait ... Singapore is not in East Asia?
     
  16. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've always called East Asia China, Japan, and Korea (and Chinese Taipei).

    Singapore is in Southeast Asia (ASEAN), and I think the British sometimes consider it part of South Asia.
     
  17. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Why? The rest of your post doesn't suggest anything of the sort. All I see is info about nations and a specific racial category of students in the US.

    It isn't. But pointing the finger (correctly) at parents and the community would be political suicide. It would result in charges of elitism in President Obama's case, and racism in Dubya's. Neither would be true (based on that evidence alone), but it would happen.

    Plus, it's not like any of us can decide who gets to breed and who doesn't. Teachers, OTOH, can be fired. And with their unions and edumacayshun and looking down their noses at the less fortunate, they're an easy target for the dumb masses to latch onto.
     
  18. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Really? We should assess our quality on the lifestyles of the poorest?
     
  19. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, actually.
     
  20. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not what I said.
     
  21. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if we're a christian nation,then yes. ;)
     
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  22. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    So, how many poor people are you currently housing?
    So, how many poor Christians are you currently housing? ;)
     
  23. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two, if you count both my wife and I. I don't think you have to house poor people to help them out. Private charity coupled with government safety nets and social programs do the trick in most places.
     
  24. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As we've discussed before{IIRC},I have worked with some the most marginalized people in the history of this country.My employer provides or has provided housing and program services for over 100 Willowbrook class members.

    Before we adopted,we also did some foster care respite.

    It's unfortunate that this thread is derailing a little bit.
     
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  25. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    I had originally added, then deleted, "Yourself excluded"! :D
    Thought you may have presumed that a bit presumptuous. ;)
     

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