What happens when horn sounds during play?

Discussion in 'Referee' started by mvgary, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Additional question: how, exactly, do you accidentally sound an airhorn during play :rolleyes:
     
  2. FLRef

    FLRef Member

    Dec 11, 2010
    Florida
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where is this in the NFHS rulebook?
     
  3. mvgary

    mvgary Member

    Jan 12, 2006
    The horn sounded with 26:23 left in the first half. Score was 0-0 at the time and the red team would be considered the underdog in this game. Neither official is NISOA certified, I'm not sure that should have any bearing on this.
     
  4. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    I misread it, probably going too fast. For some reason I thought the spurious horn sounded with 13 seconds left in the game. Middle of the first half, could be ... likely ... completely different. But (ir)regardless ... referee's discretion.
     
  5. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    #30 campbed, Nov 16, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
    For me: goal stands, the "two guys in yellow shirts" chickened out and did the wrong thing here.
    [Stick to your guns kids. Especially when it involves pulling a goal out of the net. And you are in the right.]

    In the opinion of this referee, the inadvertent scorekeepers horn OR fan air horn, did not effect play. So sorry (see signature below). I see opinions here differing, that should be expected, and not all of the opinions here are equal given the question is an NFHS rule one (sorry FIFA/USSF folks).

    If you are looking for a way to justify taking away Red team goal via the NFHS Rules, it is not overly complicated I think:

    NFHS Rule 9 (Ball In and Out of Play) Section 3 (Temporary Suspension).

    Specifically, you as referee are presented with an unusual situation (errant horn NFHS players are trained to mean "stop playing"), and you blow your whistle to temporarily suspend play. Neither team is in clear possession when the unusual situation happens = DB restart. Bawk bawk, cluck cluck. Carry on and hope you parked your car facing out.

    I take issue with the OP stating: "Referees and coaches had discussion and goal was taken away because both teams stopped playing after the horn." This statement seems a partisan one. I see no evidence of this at all in the video.

    QUESTIONS I HAVE:
    1. What & Where was the restart?
    2. Did the "two guys in yellow shirts" have the timekeeper adjust the game clock?
    3. Given no whistle was ever sounded by the "two guys in yellow shirts", ummmm, was the match protested?
    4. Why were certified referees not used for a playoff game? "two guys in yellow shirts" seems a bit light for the occasion.
    5. Given #4 above, why did we all just waste our time discussing this? Ya's gets whats Ya pays for....
     
  6. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    What makes you think these officials did not stick to their guns?
     
  7. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because they let play go on until the ball was in the net...?

    As far as a timer goes and what NFHS says:

    ART. 3 . . . The official timer shall:

    a. Start the timing device when the ball is put into play and stop the timing device when signaled to do so by a referee for an injury, for a penalty kick, for a caution, for a disqualification, following the scoring of a goal and when an official orders the clock to be stopped;

    b. Signal to the official(s) when substitutions are to be made;

    c. Countdown verbally the last 10 seconds of each period of play to the nearest official;

    d. Be aware of the position of the ball when it becomes dead;

    e. Signal when time for a period has expired;

    f. Signal two minutes after the end of the first and third quarters when applicable;

    g. Signal two minutes before the end of the interval between the first and second halves.

    AND:

    ART. 4 . . . A period shall end at the expiration of time.

    EXCEPTION: Play shall be extended beyond the expiration of a period, in regulation time and overtime, to permit a penalty kick to be completed.


    So while it doesn't say specifically that a ball in the air can't be scored after the horn it implies that the end of a period is at the time of the horn, only exception listed is a PK. This also implies that the timer's signal means nothing unless it is doing one of the jobs listed by the rule book. Unlike a referee whistle which always stops play when it is blown during active play.

    I am of the camp that the players didn't really stop when that horn sounded and that I wouldn't' care either way. That was not a proper or even likely time for the official use of the horn. Have some common sense when player soccer. The second issue is that if this happened during a game it would be then end of that official timer's day for me. "Sorry gents, I am keeping the clock."
     
    dadman repped this.
  8. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    You don't really know that. You can't see or hear both officials.
    They could be saying "no no no" and shaking their head the entire time.


    Under 3e, he signaled the time period had expired and at least one player in white had stopped playing.
     
  9. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    OT: why are all the posts centered?
     
  10. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Because politics are not allowed on the site.
     
    sitruc, BTFOOM, Thezzaruz and 1 other person repped this.
  11. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They have whistles to stop play. Voices to keep it going.

    You don't really know that ;) He could be saying, watch this, I'm going to cause a whole lot of referees to lose their minds.

    Edit:

    Formatting issues.
     
  12. Mi3ke

    Mi3ke Member

    Oct 18, 2011
    New Mexico
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ask Rosemary Woods. Really old Watergate reference.

    Cheers, Mi3ke
     
  13. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    They sounded the horn for 18 minutes?! :eek:
     
  14. blueboy

    blueboy Member

    Oct 26, 2000

    Are we the only 2 who watched the video? NO one stopped playing or even hesitated, even for a split second. Horn did NOT affect play.

    Also, what was center doing on opposite side of field when goal was scored - way out of position, as all play was on other side of field.
     
  15. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    You can't see everyone on the pitch, especially the most important -- the defenders. But your point is a valid one, which is why this is hard to determine without being there. To me, there must have been some doubt by the referees if they reversed their call (or, a less desirable possibility is they gave into being bullied by the team).

    Well, if my memory serves correctly the referees are employing the "dual" and the "center" you reference is actually the trail official.
     
  16. blueboy

    blueboy Member

    Oct 26, 2000
    Well, if my memory serves correctly the referees are employing the "dual" and the "center" you reference is actually the trail official.[/quote]


    Correct - in my first viewing, the other referee looked like an AR, but actually isn't/
     
  17. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    Did your second viewing also catch some of the players being affected by the horn?

    Kidding! :laugh:
     
  18. mvgary

    mvgary Member

    Jan 12, 2006
    NFHS game using two officials.

    Paraphrased official response from National NFHS interpreter. - If the officials felt the horn adversely affected play, they should have blow the whistle to stop play. Restart would dropped ball or IFK if one team had possession.
    They did not stop play and trail official called out "play on" indicating that the horn did not interfere with play. The resulting goal should be allowed.
     
  19. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    But they can change their minds before the restart ...
     
  20. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    And, why yell "play on" if you don't think anyone is affected?
     
  21. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    "...and their decisions on points of fact are final."
     
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    So they won't be -- I do that routinely when there is a whistle from a nearby field that has the *potential* to affect play. Once play *is* affected, IMHO, it's too late to yell anything that would permit you to avoid stopping.
     
  23. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    Fair point. I guess the fact that they yelled something and then ended up taking back the goal indicates they had some doubt on if it impacted play. But that's just me wanting to be right. :D
     
  24. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    But apparently only one participant in the duel yelled play on ... the other might have seen something that caused them to change their collective mind after the fact.
     
  25. Yale

    Yale Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    At which point both coaches instinctively shouted “Oh c'mon, ref, call the foul!” :D
     

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