So for all the talk of needing a more granular referee grading system, USSF chooses to go with a less granular system. How far are we from just FIFA list and Other?
I put it down to poor writing/editing. Surely they mean for 7s to be able to referee youth games along with the adult. It would be unreasonably restrictive otherwise. They just don't want 8s to work adult games. Of course I reserve the right to be completely wrong.
I know what it says, and maybe I'm naive to use "USSF" and "common sense" in the same thought, but come on...does anyone really believe there will be any grade where the refs are forbidden from doing youth games? I do mostly adult games, but I always pitch in on big youth tournament weekends...I'd guess many of you are the same way. I imagine that assigners would pitch a fit if this was no longer allowed.
The meaning of grade 7 has been changed. "Please make a note of it." The current system is that grade 7's "recommended assignment" level is "All youth games and mixed leagues, assistant referee in all adult games below the top division." (mixed league = co-ed) In effect, grade 7 became recognition that the referee was capable of doing U-15 and above successfully most of the time. Don't forget that referees were supposed to do games at the level they were seeking (i.e. the game experience requirement) BEFORE they completed the other requirements for upgrade and got their new grade. Hence, grades 7 and 8 were already doing adult games, theoretically to get the experience before they upgraded. The new grade 7 means that the referee has been trained on how to do adult amateur games. It is strictly entry level instruction and NO game experience is required (nor a physical fitness test nor is there any minimum age). I.e. you could have, under the new system, a 10 year old who has taken a quiz who is now a grade 7, supposedly capable of doing adult games. YMMV. There is no reason that a grade 7 or higher can not do youth games.
The way that I understand it is that Grade 7 is reserved for adult players that want to only referee adult games and have no desire to work youth games. However if they so choose they can upgrade to a State referee at a future time or take a Grade 8 class and referee youth games. It is created this way in order to encourage Adult players to become referees in the first place. Also any grade 8 referee can skip grade 7 and go straight for State 6.
I don't think so -- look at what Missouri wrote, whcih was quoted in full above: I guess this kinda, sorta makese sense -- though if that's what they mean, it might make more sense to do some renaming -- "A" replaces 7 (easier to remember, A for adult..) and B for 8, as they no longer are really a numerical sequence at all, and start the numbers at 5. But no one asked me.
Turning grade 5 into a national candidate grade is a bit strange to me. There is a big gap between the least experienced 6 to the most experienced 5 under the current system, so I'm not sure it's wise to merge the two together. I think the idea to make grade 5 into a regional referee would have been better, so each region could nominate their top referees for national candidacy. Also, the referees would be seen more often at the regional level than they will by Herb Silva, so there would be a more complete picture of the abilities of the referee.
I was actually thinking we're getting close to "PRO/ready for PRO" and "Other." I get why some of the changes are being made. But if Grade 6 is really the only upgrade before you could be tapped for National Candidacy, that's putting a lot of burden on SRAs and the federation. In smaller states, it shouldn't be as tough; SRAs will know their pool pretty well, advocate for the best they have and the federation will be able to make a determination on suitability for progression. But what larger states where there will be hundreds of 6s? What is the filter going to be that gets those referees ID'd for possible progression? I know everyone has their opinions and only the federation's counts. And I do agree that there should be a stage where the federation "takes control" of a referee before they are given a National badge. But I don't think eliminating a state referee grade was the proper way to do it, because the distinction between 5 and 6 seemed to be very important in a lot of states (and I don't mean important to the referees for bragging rights; I mean important for ID purposes at state and regional events). Anyway, if I had a magic wand: 1A FIFA CR 1B FIFA AR 2A PRO CR 2B PRO AR 3A National CR 3B National AR 4 National Candidate 5 Regional Referee 6 State Referee 7 Adult Referee 8 Youth Referee
You can stop right there. The person making the decisions lacks common sense and logic. His does what he wants and moves on.
That seems pretty similar to how it breaks down within the Canadian Soccer Association. There's no specific mentioning of PRO in our hierarchy, but usually anyone who also is in PRO is classified as National or above. Here's the CSA hierarchy: 1 - FIFA 2 - National 3 - Provincial 4 - Regional 5 - District (the "entry-level" for 11-a-side for those age 16 or older) 6 - Youth (the "entry-level" for those age 14 or 15, usually small-sided only — though that depends on the provincial associations, I believe)
MassachusettsRef, Cal South will be the only state with over 100 in grade 6. Even Cal North is less than 75. "Progression" beyond grade 6 really isn't up to the SRA,SDI,SDA, et al. anymore. National Candidate candidates no longer have to get their SRA to sign off on their application. I would say that the LAC will, in effect, probably have more say over the future of grade 6's, based on who gets assigned to the 'just below PRO' games (Reserve Team AR's & 4ths, PDL, Development Academy, earlier round Open Cup, etc.) Of course, some grade 6's are pretty obviously not going to be potential grade 5's in the new system anyway. (like me.) The numbering system does not, I will note, distinguish between a National Referee Candidate and a National Assistant Referee Candidate.
Assuming @NHRef isn't spot-on...Devil's advocate here... Regarding the experience gap issue, I would argue that the gap between Kevin Stott (Grade 3, ex-WC ref) and, say, Robert Sibiga (Grade 3, new 4O to MLS) would be a much greater gap than the best 5 to the worst 6 in my state. There are 30-40 whistle-blowing Referees that are Grade 3, right? In any given state they have 30-75 refs that are Grade 5 and 6 (which Law5 just confirmed as I'm typing). It's not impossible for the State to know the experience level of all their guys in-state. Also, what if this was driven by Herb? What if he's just been to enough events where he's looking at guys that are 7, 6, 5, 5NC, and 4 and wondering what the hell is going on? What if he just said "F*ck it, I want to know if they're a NC or not...NCs are 5, everyone else is a 6." For someone whose job it is to identify talent, he may be tired of wading through the bog of numbers that we're used to. I mean, if USSF is changing it, it's not like he could be completely opposed to it, right?
Is the spreadsheet w/ referee registrations by grade/state still floating around? I'm just curious of just how many people the changes to 7,6, and 5 will affect.
For the purposes of understanding his abilities, Kevin Stott is effectively a FIFA referee. The only reason he is not still listed as such is the mandatory retirement age, something that doesn't exist for any non-FIFA referee. Also, I highly doubt that Silva has too much trouble figuring out who the national candidates are. I doubt there are more than 50 in any given year, though someone with real numbers could feel free to correct me.
The numbers I have sitting in front of me are for 2012, but I doubt the 2013 would be significantly different. Nationally, there were 707 referees in grade 5. Of course, that includes that who were National Candidates and those who weren't. There were 1,255 grade 6 referees and 3,555 grade 7 referees. The national figures on grade do not show, of course, how many of the 7's were doing adult games, how many were doing youth games only and how many were doing some mixture of both.
He just wouldn't put the asterisk in there and he'd have to add the word that starts with s and ends with t.
A quick count from game officials shows: Grade 1 = 12 Grade 2 = 12 Grade 3 = 60 Grade 4 = 162 Grade 5 = 742 (of whom 55 are NC-R and 17 are NC-AR) Grade 6 = 1023 Granted these are not complete numbers as I know of some grade 5's and 6's who are active referees but are not in gameofficials.
Making the grade 5 a national candidate makes sense to me. Really, prior to this, what was the difference between 5 & 6? An extra year in grade, I think 25 more games and some extra assessmetn hoops to jump through. Why the two classes? I'm a 42 year old grade 5. Why? Because I don't have the time to invest going for my 4. And I'm also realistic in the fact that I'm not qualified to be a 4. So I'm holding onto it as long as I can. I'm not really any better than a 42 year old grade 6...and some would argue no better than some 42 year old grade 8's.
This is correct. "U.S. Soccer will be changing the Grade 5 designation from State Referee to National Candidate effective July 1, 2014 as well. This change will result in all State Referee being registered as Grade 6 and U.S. Soccer will oversee the registration and selection of future National Candidates."
CalSouth has elected to merge the State Grades immediately, so it looks like we will be the test for everyone else's 2015. Moreover, local requirements to upgrade to Grade 7 have a minimum age (17) and assessment (one) requirement. At this point, the Grade 7 clinic is an upgrade from 8 rather than an entry level adult class. But, there has been discussions generally about how to adjust instruction modularly based on the age and experience of the students. Fasten your seatbelts.
Crash Test Dummies don't need no stinkin' seatbelts. Snark.... Change is difficult, any bad or poorly executed change can be fixed with time.
So am I the only person who takes both adult and youth games on a regular basis? It seems silly that a state would force refs to choose one or the other. Unless, of course, Grade 8s can skip to Grade 6 so as to continue getting both adult and youth assignments. But then, what exactly is the point of Grade 7?
At our recert in August we were told DC/Virginia was leaning toward keeping same assessment/upgrade process we currently have for 8-7, and something similar to current (but possibly fewer assessments) for 7-6. But they also said no final decision had been made, and there were just early discussions. It sounded like that would keep our assignment levels basically the same. Of course the 6-5 merger is happening everywhere, and we haven't heard an official decision yet. This is what we were sent from our SDI back in September (in an e-mail generally reminding people that the new USSF rules don't kick in until the 2015 registration year): "The SRC will work on the issue of implementing USSF reclassification and announcement will be made later."
The way the memo from Missouri reads is not how it was interpreted to me, although what I was told was from a knowledgeable source, the source clearly stated that it was not certain and that GA was still figuring it all out. It seems odd to limit a current grade 7 to adult only unless they are going to make current 7's grade 6 since the new requirements for a 6 are what is already required for a current grade 7 (in GA at least). The grade 7 instruction was all new and clearly designed for training on adult matches. The instructors never left out youth matches and in fact would use examples and clips given (always adult) for how to handle this if it was U10 or U16 etc. During the class it was stated that there were no plans to lower the standards that GA uses now as USSF had said the new grade requirements were minimums. I think there was also something from USSF that possibly in 2015 they would limit how much leeway the states will have but I can't find that now so maybe I made that up in my feeble head.