As far as i know, there is nothing stopping you from splitting off and going solo. I've heard that Kurtis and the NYC Gooners have already done so. I don't see any conflict having independent branches and a national organization. The major issue is that our national organization is deeply dysfunctional and seemingly corrupt.
And? There are no bylaws posted and there are apparently 1500 members so says the post on ArsenalAmerica.com Shouldn't they have a say in elections then? We are paid members in good standing only because it's forced upon us. So we can get what out of this exactly? A RT on twitter for our branch and our bar info updated online? Go back a few pages and you'll see Nick bitching about stuff not happening, and now he's doing the same exact things off of the work George put in to try and force Josh out. Confirm or deny that one Nick. Also Charles, helllllo where are you? I'm calling you out to respond to this stuff and to not try and throw diversions in about a national meet up which has nothing to do with questioning how this hierarchy was formed. http://i.imgur.com/8VfmOQw.jpg Nick thinks it doesn't matter if what i'm saying is true or not. Also nothing is semi functional because you don't even have access to a paypal account or members list to give us anything. Correct Nick?
It's an interesting moral quandary. I believe Nick's intentions are good, but by going along with the program, he has compromised himself to some extent (at least by guilt through association). And while I agree with Hiddi's more principled stance, i'm not sure that it will have the desired effect. Comes down to one of those "do the ends justify the means" questions, and i was always taught that the ends never justify the means.
Unfortunately this is not true. At least not yet. I personally would like Philadelphia to be able to go separate to have our own communication line to Arsenal directly but to still be involved in what is a hopefully functional Arsenal America "umbrella".
No they have not yet. There have been discussions with Jill Smith and while they are listed on the Arsenal site under North America, it unfortunately is not official. Recent discussions have been about ticket allocation issues and while I don't want to also speak for NYC, we don't use Arsenal America for tickets. We have our own sets of contacts and encourage our members to get red memberships or we have a silver in the group for use even. It just became too much of a headache to send our members to AA and then have them questioning us back when they weren't getting responses or updates about their ticket order from AA. We've asked Jill to set that issue aside and are currently waiting to hear back. Let me be clear though, that I do care about Arsenal America, otherwise I wouldn't be causing "trouble". The want of independence is strictly for streamlining our own communication with Arsenal. I still want to and care about connecting with other American arsenal supporters in addition to that under a hopefully functional AA.
For how many years now though? I recall this being an issue for several years long before Nick came along. Don't forget the Arsenal times or podcast. And if you noticed it was over a year or so ago. Also if you had read what I had said previously, it wasn't as simple as saying 'hey I would like to help out.' I tried that with Josh and never heard back. I'm not sure how you want things to work, but I don't think bylaws and things liek what you want can be done overnight. So by your own statement, things are still a mess, but you want things ironed out right away. Yep, that is going to work. Now in regards to Charles, I don't know if he has an account set up here or not so calling him out here might not be the best idea.
ArsenalTexan3, Sure and now Nick is leeching onto that. Like I said to Nick, confirm or deny that George backed away when Josh wouldn't allow transparency and you stepped in for that role without having any integrity when you had the chance to say something. Also have volunteered my time to be stood up on conference calls and ignored so I know exactly what you're talking about. Where do you start off with getting bylaws done then? Is another coup regime which still has the past in control and working hand in hand with a good place to start? I'd argue that it's not and that's why i'm complaining and posting information to those who might not have any idea about what took place over the summer. Of course this will take time to iron out, but the questioning of where are the bylaws? is just a dig at their corruption and how i'm not buying that anything has changed. (because it hasn't) Charles is on plenty of other mediums. I personally called for posting public things on twitter over the summer and got a branch manager's private forum set up on facebook which Charles is a member of and has not responded to or posted to once. There is also the posting on ArsenalAmerica.com which is his own post with people asking for answers. I'm not sure who Chris Tex is but they posted on that thread asking Charles to address himself here as well.
Chris Tex is me. This is where alot of the calling out of Josh began when he took power from DocK. As for other planes for Charles to respond to, I don't doubt it. I extended him an invitation to explain here. My thing with the bylaws is maybe they have started, maybe they haven't. With Arsenal Scotland, it had to be ratified at the AGM. None of this ok we are going to vote that you have to be a member of AA for at least one year before you can run for office in the middle of the year. The talk of bylaws have been going on for at least 2 years and I doubt any have been done which is why I am saying give Nick time.
To become your own group you (as of when went official) just need 10 members willing to pay and some bylaws. This would then trump any other group. Like when Canada formed their own group, we lost the ability to have Canadian members. But I see value in having a national group more coordinating things rather than running things. The national group would setup big events like Dallas Cup (except they didn't then), the DC dinner we did, etc. and let the local groups handle most everything else. Just have ArseAm support the local groups. But so few people now see any benefit in a paying for a group at all. Give them a T-shirt sure then they will pay. But not for supporting a group.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have bylaws formed and put together for the masses by a collective community of its members as opposed to a behind closed doors controversially appointed "board"?
BTW, i don't believe that AA has anywhere near 1500 paying members. I think it's more likely that paid membership has eroded significantly under Josh's regime. I imagine that's why they brag about 50,000 FB "likes" instead of quoting actual membership numbers.
Absolutely, that's why i think a convention is necessary, and doing it under the auspices of the current "board" may be a necessary evil. I've talked to Jill about these issues before and her answer has been essentially that we need to sort it out ourselves.
I would be shocked if we ever had 1500 paying members. When that number was put out there by Josh it just said "members" and their is two classes of membership now.
Complete agreement. I unfortunately don't know any inside info about how finances were spent but was only told the website was expensive and cost $5000 after my persistent questioning (which is completely unrealistic for what is very much a wordpress template) If there is nothing to hide, then release a transparent finance report...
Yeah I don't buy the web site being $500. It could be those trying to get the transparent finance report can't because there are no records as the previous group didn't want to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar. I never did get my scarf either.
How hard can it be to just release the finances? This has been going on for ages. The only excuse at this point is embarrassment for the people that have been skimming off it.
Your self appointed VP role, when you could have joined in demanding change. Now you've become the person your previous posts on this thread would have criticized all while foolishly STILL being under the thumb of previous management which you hate to / won't admit because you're "working from the inside now". Perhaps you should stop with the individual messages to people that post criticism to try and play damage control (yes, that's going on people) and stick to the public forums for discussion. I'd also suggest you reread some of your older posts here. Arsenal America Elections? Do they really exist? I always hear the results after they happen, but i've never had the opportunity to vote. What's the deal? Has anyone here ever voted in one? And please, only current or former ArsenalAmerica members should vote in the poll. antifan, Jun 28, 2010 Anyone who votes yes is clearly lying. HomeatHighbury,Jun 28, 2010
Sorry that I'm trying to explain my position to those that I see concerned about where things are. Things will only change from inside, which is what I'm trying to do, and if Philly thinks I'm a terrible person for believing that it can happen then I guess that's what it will have to be. We had an awesome opportunity to do something with strength in numbers where it mattered, on the inside, but that didn't pan out, did it?
Whatever you say. Your M.O. has been avoiding direct questions while Charles not talking at all. Again, a national meet up or bitching about money lost off season tickets has NOTHING to do with the current questions about an election that didn't take place or financial transparency. How about you believe it can happen with everyone else involved instead?
Drop the power grab and assemble a team that's open and transparent that could help Arsenal America rise from the ashes. You're acting no different than a previous coup.
Seriously, do you not get it? George and I dropped off when transparency would not be shown because it was the right thing to do. You DID NOT back us up and sided with the path of corruption because of your selfishness to claim the spot of VP, which was previously not going to be handed to you. Stop playing stupid with everyone about what went on.