Should We Stay Or Should We Go? - The Chelsea News Thread

Unless you think the team compositions would have been different if the competition was called "World Cup" vs. "Confederations cup", then who cares what they call it. Oscar starts for Brazil, Mata sits on the bench for Spain.

All I want to "argue" here, is that neither player is on a "different level" than another. If anyone is on a different level, it's the one who starts for their NT OR one who can play not only in a #10 role, but has proven effective even out of position.

"The best playmaker in the world (bar Ozil)" in your agrument isn't even starting for his NT. Reconcile that? Oh, if you say he has players ahead of him, ... then how is he the best playmaker in the world again?

 

It's crazy how a fan of this club, who has watched Mata(I think anyways) dominate for two seasons could possibly underrate him that much.

Zola was neve a regular for Italy, maybe he actually wasn't as great for Chelsea as we thought he was, no that's just crazy

 

I think it is crazy to think that Mata is 1) "the best playmaker in the world" and 2) on "a whole other level" than Oscar.

And yes, I have watched Mata and every other CFC game for the last 6+ years. I could count the number of CFC games, including pre-season, etc that I have missed on one hand. I'm saying this to re-assure you, I at least pretend to have context for my opinion - and one that is not a knee-jerk reaction.

Having re-read the thread, I have been consistent in my respect for your opinion that Mata could and/or is and/or will be a better #10 then Oscar

The only reason you might be in the minority, is because you think "it's not even close". This is echoed by

Have YOU been watching? Oscar is much more than a "fine" player, Juan hasn't exactly impressed this year.

We disagree, that is fine; i guess I am the one in the minority thinking that it IS a close decision of who the fulcrum of CFC should be based on how "in form" each player is.

Enjoy the win boys.

 

I have to say, I haven't read through the various posts so I apologise if I'm treading on anyone's toes regarding Mata and Oscar but, IMO, in some games Mata has been better and in others, Oscar but, overall, I'd say Mata has been more effective in more games.

Now, whether that means one should start over the other is another thing but, maybe, JM's seen something in training that makes HIM think Oscar's a more likely candidate if they're 'up' for a single position? Of course, maybe he's just saying that one is more effective at one thing whereas the other IS good enough to be able to play that position but can also play another position as WELL and it's better overall for the team if he does.

IOW maybe we're reading too much into this. Maybe he's just saying that Mata is capable of doing both and, on that basis, he should do the latter?

Just a thought.

 

I like this post

 

Hmm... not sure about that last bit.

 

In the last 3 years Mata is one of the three top assist makers who play in Europe along with Messi and Ozil, yes that is a class and cut above, a whole other leval, a level where only the best play-makers in the world reside, as is being in the Top 5 in assists of players in Europe over the last 5 years.

Oscar is really really good top class and getting better, but he is no Mata as an assist making # 10 full range, full vision creative incisive passer, which is not to say he is a slouch in those areas. Now who is the best footballer overall, better in other positions, other approaches, is a different argument all together.

 

Good shout on KDB, next to Mata he is our most incisive passer IMO. And if we are to continue the lunacy of not playing our best player, hopefully De Bruyne gets more time

 

Does anyone think it is possible that the new style of play Jose and the higher powers want to push for could involve a switch to a different formation than the 4-2-3-1 we've grown accustom to? Could explain why Jose prefers Oscar as the playmaker from the start of the season rather than Mata. Perhaps being younger, more unpolished, and more diverse has given Oscar the advantage to grow into a role such as one of the CM's in a 4-3-3. Not saying this is for sure where I think we are going, but with the personnel we currently have, I think we are more suited to a different formation. As many on the board have previously stated, we need another mid in one of the anchor roles to be more effective in a 4-2-3-1; this could also explain why there's been so much tinkering in the two holding mid positions so far this season. I do think Mata is the better playmaker in a 4-2-3-1 in more of a free role, but in another formation his defensive shortcomings could prove more problematic. I'm aware that Jose used a 4-2-3-1 at Real, but he also had Alonso, Khedira, and Modric to work with. On another note, I too am of the opinion that KDB should get more time

EDIT: Haven't checked the boards in a bit and have just seen people posting on the formation in the Fulham game thread. Think it is worth mentioning in this Oscar v. Mata argument

 

I dont think we buy all these attacking mids to switch to a formation that only fits in two of them

 

Jose is playing the formation he wants to play imo. He talks about a long term project I don't think he'd slow it down by starting with a different formation.

 

My argument was just about whether Oscar would get into the Spanish squad. I think he would. Now, whether he'd start... ah! that's another issue.

 

Quote:
>>>>>>>
Miggie Sarmiento 1 day ago

I watched the game in the stadium. Everyone was cheering for Mikel to shoot even though he is in the Defensive side of the pitch. The special meal plan for him worked. He lost all the excess fat. And also, Mata won't be playing at least for the next two weeks. He has a special individual training that Mourinho planned for him. It helps him adapt to the new style of play being implemented at Chelsea.

- Chelsea fan/U-15 player.

>>>>>>
I am not trying to be a rumor monger. But, I saw this in the Goal.com comments (player ratings).
http://www.goal.com/en/match/109250/chelsea-fc-vs-fulham/player-ratings

It is possible that Mourinho wants Mata to play more like Schurrle (to play with Oscar). Maybe Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 has less fluidity among the 3 AMs with 2 designated wide AM and 1 CM. Perhaps he is planning Eden on Left and Mata on Right (2 inverse wingers like a Ronaldo/Bale combo). And I am hopeful that there is some truth to the quotes from Mourinho saying that Mata is important to the team but has some work to do (can't be bothered to find them).

I don't know if this post really came from someone with "inside knowledge" but I am hopeful that we see Oscar/Mata/Hazard on the field at the same time. I think Hazard is at his best when Oscar helps "cover" should he lose the ball on a dribble; and Mata helps Hazard by finding the little "holes" to ping the ball 1-touch back to Eden or someone else when Hazard takes the ball at speed. When Hazard is left to create all on his own, he will score some and occasionally cross, but I find I am often disappointed with the ball at his feet.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...Lukaku-is-so-good-in-any-language-for-Everton

Great interview with Lukaku. I loved this part in particular,

That is a great quality to have for anyone, let alone a footballer. You can always learn, improve, get better and that in turn, drives you to work harder.

 

Sorry haven't read all the posts, but I'll chime in with mine. To me the most glaring issue we have right now is lack of chances. Yes we finish like shite, but statistically we lack chances.

Hazard hasn't been great. Last year he linked well with Mata and was a difference maker in a lot matches. Oscar was the same way, he linked well with the other two. Mata is the missing piece. He is a true difference maker on the pitch. With a pass he can change a match. His link up play with the other two is world class. All of a sudden he doesn't have that? I like Oscar, A LOT, but he isn't Mata, not even close in my book. Mata lacks speed and size, but he more than makes up for it with his technical skill which is only rivaled by Hazard on our team. We haven't looked good. Mata hasn't played. I don't think its a coincidence.