News: Toronto FC player movement/rumours thread

Discussion in 'Toronto FC' started by Catracho_Azul, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think he means they would make us better now, but aren't good enough to get us where we need to be. So when in maybe a year they get the chance to sign players who are good enough to make us a playoff quality team, those players' contracts could be a hindrance.
     
  2. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It's yet to be seen what Rey or Elmer can bring, but there's no reason yet to believe that Rey isn't a good quality winger. 200k isn't a bad amount for a quality attacking player, and in this league you really can't get away with cheeping out up front. Lambe is simply not threatening at all going forward for some reason.

    Also, 175k is what we're paying to get a look at Brockie, but that doesn't mean that that's what they were willing to bring him in permanently. Also you'll have to link me to one of these articles where Payne and Nelsen have been trying hard to get him permanently, because everything I've heard from them is that he's definitely going back to his club at the end of the month.

    The signing I'm more worried about is Earnshaw at 138k for I think the next two years. I really don't like his type of striker because when they're not scoring they aren't just not doing anything, they're killing plays by taking ridiculous shots from wide positions and everywhere. And Earnshaw hasn't looked good since the first couple of games.
     
  3. BHTC Mike

    BHTC Mike Member+

    Apr 12, 2006
    Burlington, ON
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Meh... I think maybe people don't always have realistic expectations of what it takes to attract players. That's why I was not impressed with the Silva move: I was confident it wouldn't be possible to find a cheaper, better replacement internationally.

    On the other hand, I accept that sometimes you have to overpay to fill a hole in your roster that there's no available domestic for. Elmer and Rey's contracts won't prevent future signings in areas of need. They question is if they're good enough. For those salaries they need to be starters. If they can't be, what's the point anyways? There's USL depth or college kids we can sign for much less.

    So it's not that I think that they're good players, it's that if they work out their contracts won't hinder the club.

    (Hopefully they're not on long guaranteed deals. I building that into my assessment too. Being able to cut them if they don't work is important and I would hope that management isn't feeling a need to offer guaranteed deals to guys from second divisions.)

    I like Reggie too for what we've allocated to him in salary and think people underrated his contribution. On a team that didn't always trade away their Americans (and thus always need international spots) he'd be more appreciated.

    Yeah, I just can't process it. Wasn't the talk that "it'll be hard to keep him because he's entertaining other offers back home?" Maybe if by "home" they meant Scotland instead of the Championship!

    He's not worth it at all and I'd rather see more of his minutes going to Braun. But he's on loan, so as long they don't sign him permanently on an even sillier deal I don't really care.

    Again, maybe it's better for me to say that I'm impressed by the team's overall salary structure. The next step, that I wish they'd been doing earlier, is to let the core gel. It's that I'm concerned about because I'm not convinced that the team needed as much turnover as it saw this year and, until it stops, I'm not willing to credit Payne with changing the culture at the club.
     
  4. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I am not assuming anything about Rey.....he may (or may not) be a good player......you seem to be assuming "quality".....based on?

    That aside my main point is cap management.....and 3x Lambe's pay does not sound like that.

    Are there many players out there that would take a pay cut even though they have two years left on his deal? Add in the transfer fee that would be required to be paid and he becomes even more expensive.
    .

    Both are true.....he is going back but TFC have said they want to keep him.....i have seen Nelsen say so in interviews....here is one article that references it.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/tfcs-brockie-plays-with-a-smile-on-his-face/
    When was Earnshaw extended for 2 years? His first deal expired June 30 and people like Larson reported it was extended to end of season but not announced by the club because the deal was so short.
     
  5. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    For me, a bigger issue about paying big money/overpaying is not having to do it on a guaranteed, relative-to-MLS long term deal. It's one thing to screw up and pay maximum cap hit or allocation consumption for a guy for half a year (Mista), one year, or even two, but if you are locked into a 3 1/2 or more years guaranteed deal with a guy and you know that you can definitely spend that money more effectively elsewhere for your squad, than that's an even bigger problem.
     
  6. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    And as my literacy abilities have clearly abandoned, my previous post simply reinforces what Mike wrote (and I overlooked) here.
     
  7. BHTC Mike

    BHTC Mike Member+

    Apr 12, 2006
    Burlington, ON
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Yes, but re-reading what I wrote, apparently my literacy skills are declining too: "I [sic] building..."?
     
  8. sportie1

    sportie1 Member

    Sep 4, 2008
    like eric hassli of dallas- an average cap hit of over $650 000 for his 3 seasons, 3 different mls teams in 3 years (vancouver, TFC and now Dallas)-- in 2013, he has averaged under 20 minutes/game and has scored 0 goals and 1 assist!!! this must be his last season on his initial contract with MLS and vancouver-- any bets he isnt gone before 2014??
     
  9. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    That one comes to mind but I was thinking more along the lines of De Guzman's contract situation.
     
  10. soulgarage

    soulgarage New Member

    Aug 17, 2007
    Well I think Payne & Co have finally signed Urruti who is scheduled to arrive at YYZ tomorrow morning at 9 am. Hope he can score, no pressure.....
     
  11. RetreadFC

    RetreadFC Member

    Sep 8, 2008
    Oshawa
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'm not really as excited about this as I would have been. Dont know why, really. I also think he's gonna be under enormous pressure... Well he can't be worse than Mista.
     
  12. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Hearing Payne's comments and Leiweke's, I don't see these two coexisting here for very long (and Leiweke is certainly not going anywhere). These two don't seem able to get on the same page no matter how much they say that their combined experience is a good thing. For example, take Leiweke's apparent (I haven't heard the interview yet, but according to everyone who did) refusal to even acknowledge a question about Urruti vs Payne openly talking about him and his situation with NOB. Add that to their seemingly conflicting opinions on DP signings.

    Oh and there's also the fact that Leiweke is the first one to say that TFC isn't making the playoffs, although he's not as close to the team as Payne and Nelsen so maybe it doesn't mean anything (since we've all known this for a long time now).
     
  13. deepm

    deepm Member

    May 13, 2009
    Mississauga
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Well that's yet to be determined. This guy has been overhyped by Payne, even more than Mista, so he better be putting some balls in the net (I don't count anything he does in reserve league games or the pre-game warm-up)

    At least this time around TFC didn't give up a promising young player to sign this guy. Or did they...Luis Silva?
     
  14. TOFC/ARSENAL

    TOFC/ARSENAL Member

    Jan 20, 2007
    Here is the question of the day. If Urruti is signed by TFC, does he get to play this year or will he have to wait until next year? If Newell's is paid a fee, then he is inelligible to play this year because the transfer market has closed. If they don't get a fee and he plays, will they protest his irregular departure from the team? If not, why not? Are they being paid something under the table to keep quiet?

    Ya I know. That's four questions, but you get the point.
     
  15. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You're forgetting that this is MLS where they make up the rules as they go along for the good of the league. The fee involved may be a settlement to keep them from tying it up in court. In which case it would be a free agent signing and they could easily claim that there was a loophole and no rules were broken.
     
  16. RetreadFC

    RetreadFC Member

    Sep 8, 2008
    Oshawa
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ^^^^
    Which is what will happen, I'm sure.
     
  17. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    So Urruti is training with the team, but they're still trying to finalize the deal
     
  18. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Those are the questions I have been asking about this protracted transfer snd how will TFC supporters feel if rules are circumvented by allowing some $$$ to flow to NOB but not call it a transfer fee and have them give up their claim to the player so that TFC can play him this year?

    Will they say "good to see the club doing whatever it can to get the players that they feel make the team better"? or will they say "Wait a minute, disturbing another club's relationship with their own player by offering him a deal, then spending months talking about that player and supporting his notion that he is not subject to a contract and then paying a release fee to get him in.....well that is the actions of unethical clubs and I would hate for some other club to pursue one of our players that way so we should not do that either".....never mind what is to be thought of a league that has an imposed transfer window/deadline and would have to participate in this "manipulation of the truth/rules" to get the player on the pitch for TFC before January.

    Of course this is all hypothetical....but I would prefer that if he has a contract with NOB and money is paid to NOB to get his release that he not play for TFC until the next window....otherwise what is the point of that league imposed deadline? (of course, I would also have preferred that any club I support if they had an offer for a player in May thwarted/rejected by the club who owns his rights to just move on and stop talking about a player under contract to another club).
     
  19. BHTC Mike

    BHTC Mike Member+

    Apr 12, 2006
    Burlington, ON
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    One extra point @TOareaFan : there seems to be a misconception, not limited to your post above and repeated throughout the TFC-internet, that the transfer window is first and foremost a league rule. It's not. MLS has a specific set of transfer windows because they play a summer schedule but transfer windows - "registration period" more properly per Wiki - are set-up by national associations at the behest of FIFA. So skirting a window ISN'T an example of TFC (or the league) skirting it's own regulations... it could potentially cause problems for MLS, the USSF, and the CSA depending on who okays the deal. FIFA, more than anything else, does not like to see their authority over the international regulation of the sport undermined.

    Tread carefully TFC.

    And, like you suggested, why not just work out a deal for January with Newell's and sign him to a pre-contract? It's not like there's any hope of a meaningful run-in this season.

    In the end, he better be worth all this. If he's coming in as a DP, there's a planet of other players out there, with less confused contractual issues, they could pursue. Pablo Vitti 2.0 - not a bad player, but not worth this level of hype - would be a major let down. Some people seem to be caught up in a facile "well, look how good Laba is" mindset; as if there's ever that much consistency to scouting and recruiting and players settling. I'd make an argument that recruiting attacking players who will deliver the goods is always far harder that the "workers" who do Laba's job. Attackers are under more scrutiny, their contribution is more measurable, and they tend to blow hot and cold so it's easy for a short run of good form, more luck than anything else, to create unrealistic expectations and valuations (see: Earnshaw, Robert).

    It's obvious, no matter how much the deniers won't acknowledge it, that management failed in all their other serious targets in the window and couldn't let the Urruti deal go no matter what roadblocks were thrown up because they have to deliver something.
     
    TOareaFan repped this.
  20. BHTC Mike

    BHTC Mike Member+

    Apr 12, 2006
    Burlington, ON
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    And now the whole thing is looking messier and messier. My sense is that other parties - agents or the "Sacred Heart" club - had either partial ownership or a sell-on clause with Newell's. But, if this isn't a "transfer", then Newell's wouldn't have to compensate them (or it might be legally impossible if Newell's are in administration). Possibly, they're the ones blocking the deal now and will also require a "non-transfer" fee. :whistling:

    I still think it's gonna happen but the longer this runs the less I like it. TFC is playing with fire here. I'm sure they feel like they're the party being wronged because Newell's seemingly reneged on a deal back in May (and created the opening by missing a payment) but this is getting uglier and uglier.
     
  21. ErnieE

    ErnieE Member

    Mar 6, 2007
    Oakville Ontario
    So having caught our big fish at last (although not yet landed) who is the player promised for next week. Any hints or rumours on the grape vine.
     
  22. Smiling Politely

    Aug 4, 2012
    The whole Urutti transfer is a mess and I don't think they are any closer to signing him then they were 3 weeks ago.
     
    crazypete13 repped this.
  23. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    If Urruti is going to be a DP (based on salary), than the question has to be asked why TFC didn't just pay up and not have to delve into shady dealings. If he's worth the DP spot, than he's worth the transfer fee. If he's not worth paying a bigger transfer fee, than the question has to be asked if they couldn't have used the DP spot and money on someone who is worth both. If we're only saving non cap hit money, than we really haven't changed have we?

    But if by using loopholes we've saved enough money to make Urruti a non DP player, than I'm really not going to complain.
     
  24. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Three weeks ago he wasn't in toronto. The fact that he's training with us means we're first in line (which we definitely couldn't say three weeks ago) and clearly both parties think it's close
     

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