1. Original MISL Steamers (1979-88) 2. St. Louis Storm (1989-92) 3. St. Louis Ambush (1992-2000) 4. WISL Steamers (2000-2001) 5. MISL2 Steamers (2003-06, under two different ownership groups) 6. MISL3 Ambush (2013)
IF you counted them as having actually died before Wally and Hetelson revived them, you could consider it 7. Or not.
Irregardless of the NPSL teams, I like the NPSL ball too. It really was the easiest ball to follow. Much better than the rocket red ball, and the PASL ball that kind of reflected the color of the carpet.
Steamers was considered, it is currently trademarked...however if we wanted it, I'm pretty sure we could have secured it. When we did some surveys, the Ambush did much better, so we decided to go with that. The Ambush trademarks are dead, but we did talk to the prior owner before we made our final decision. He was supportive.
Is he expecting to make a profit from the Ambush (or any other indoor soccer team) by owning them or flipping them?
How many people have ever made a profit by owning a team? And Bernie Rodin was probably the one guy who made out tremendously by selling his team. He sold the original Blast for $2.9M right after the 1984 championship and the guy he sold it to sold it five years later for a quarter of that. Very few indoor teams have ever actually been sold at all, so the concept of flipping it is probably misguided as well. Short answer to your question: Don't think either strategy would work, but no one can say what he's thinking.
My point exactly. His short sighted investment strategy may (or may not) have worked with other sports, but this is the wasteland known as Pro indoor soccer--no one EVER makes money off of these teams! I love soccer, and I commend those who have put their heart and cash into the game (on and off the field), but the league needs to be weary of the types of investors (like Raj) who will move in and take advantage of the chaotic nature of the indoor soccer business world right now. Hopefully, the league (USL) is more long sighted and will not just take money from someone who is waving cash today.
Whatever the count is, I am thrilled that this ownership group has decided to take a run at it. If they can stick it out while the fan base is rebuilt, there is long term potential there.
To be fair...hasn't everyone, everywhere said that? Everyone seems to think that wherever they live should have a team and that team would do great, and if it doesn't do great, the ownership sucked, but the next team will do great. The (original) Steamers were amazing success...for several years. But died. The (original) Ambush was very successful at a time when the NPSL was basically the top league, but had a lot of crap in it. But they died, too. The Hetelson/Wally Steamers were a circus. At times a well-attended circus, but a circus that lost a bunch of money. I just don't think there's going to be an oasis anywhere all of a sudden, or even in the short-to-medium-term. A market or a team's long-term potential is exactly as long-term as its ownership is okay with losing a bunch of money, it seems.
I don't think success will be automatic. That's why I said, "If they can stick it out while the fan base is rebuilt, there is long term potential there." There is a portion of the St. Louis fan base that gets very emotionally attached to their teams. That portion of the base is going to be hesitant to get attached to another team, only to lose them a year or two later. Once the franchise shows some stability, along with success in the standings, I can envision a situation where the fan base returns in enough consistent numbers to keep things afloat. Besides getting former fans to come back, of course it's necessary to attract new fans. I'm sure none of this is news to the new ownership, given their experience in both franchise ownership and in marketing. There are those that feel that had certain key personnel not jumped ship from the Ambush to the WISL Steamers, the Ambush never would have folded. Remember that Doran, several star players and some front office personnel left prior to the 1999-2000 Ambush season, even though the WISL Steamers didn't play until the summer of 2000. I am not saying this to blame anyone, just recounting actual events.
I speculate that indoor can make a come back but not at the top big money way it was. I believe that the PASL level can bring back indoor. Outdoor has been booming and indoor is starting to really take off as well and people are playing soccer like there is no tomorrow. However I think going back to putting together a home team with less expense is going to be the route to get there. These guys will move up the chain and then play for the home team. It will not be a big money maker but it could be the next level from what there is now. Because here in Chicago there are a lot of teams and in Detroit and many others it could be an upward succession to a top tier like the Waza do. The MISL route I believe is gone. A new path to success needs to be explored and it could just be the PASL that does it. There are teams here in Chicago that think they could compete against the MISL teams. When the Blast played here I spoke with several players that were in the stands and said they could give the Blast a run for their money and possibly even beat them. Hell they said their team could beat the Riot and the Soul. Just thinking out loud
If owners could stick it out forever in any market, there would be long-term potential there. And if my mom had two wheels, she'd be a bicycle. The fact is that only 16 franchises have ever lasted 10 or more seasons. And only two of those still exist. And in being sued. And accused of malfeasance. If you're going to hitch your wagon to this guy, I'm not sure you're going to be happy with the results. "Would never have folded" is also ambitious, given every team ever except for six has folded.
I am not talking about sticking it out indefinitely. I guess I should have been more specific than when I said while the fan base is rebuilt. I don't know how long it would take, but I think it's realistic to expect to lose money the first few seasons. Hetelson lasted two seasons. He told me if he could have come back for a third, he had the franchise in a position to break even in year three. As for hitching our wagon on the owner, the fans don't exactly have a choice who the owner is, do we? I don't know about previous legal issues. Anyone can get sued. I do know that this group is making the investment and bringing indoor soccer back to the market -- something no one else would do in the past seven years. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and plan to fully support the team and enjoy the ride -- however long it lasts. The theory about the original Ambush not folding has some basis in the fact that they did well for seven seasons prior to their last. What "could" have happened is open to speculation. My point is that this market has shown long term support to a team done right, both in the original Steamers (1980's) and Ambush (1990's).
Kenn: You're quite the positive thinker these days, aren't you?? Just curious, did you ever work for the previous STL Ambush, especially in the late 90's?? If so, then you would know exactly what Jim Fossell is talking about. At least wait and see what happens before you start criticizing. I think new Ambush has a good chance to make it. I say that with confidence because I know the STL soccer community very well, and people are excited.
If I recall, though, there had already been whispers about the Ambush folding before the Steamers thing even cropped up and attendance was already down. Aft those guys left attendance totally plummeted. I think Dr. Abe is a good guy so why would all of those guys leave him after so many years? Maybe they had his blessing?
I hope so. I have worked for, in point of fact, more teams than you have, if you want to play that card. You always think St. Louisans are excited about whatever team there happens to be. I am merely going by history, which says 81 of 87 franchises have folded over time. Also, this...
And there is the rub. Any owner would obviously keep going if they were making money. But they don't, hence the high mortality rate of clubs.
Point is, any owner of a new franchise should plan on losing money the first two or three seasons at least, then reaching the break-even point for a season or two and then possibly making some money.
True. But sometimes the loss of money in the first couple of years is much more than planned, for whatever reason, and it leaves the owner(s) scrambling for help. Another thing that a potential owner has to worry about is the possibility of the League itself folding. If the owner can show that they are making progress in the first year, then they can proactively reach out to investors and advertisers throughout that first year who will help mitigate that initial loss. The second year won't be as much a shock if someone else is helping row that boat, but it will be difficult. As long as the club shows progress and has a firm but somewhat flexible business model, they will survive. Based on past history (as Kenn can tell you), chances are you won't make money in indoor soccer. Like the airline business, many have tried and equally as many (minus a couple) have failed. But it is good to see that people keep trying!
The problem with that is there probably won't be an MISL by that time. I just cannot see how this is going to work. I love watching indoor soccer, and I used to drag friends and family to games, but those days are long gone. It's just too exhausting trying to explain what the umteenth version of a St. Louis team is, what happened to the other teams, what the league is called, etc.