(THE SUN ARTICLE): "It's Time to Think About the End of Wenger"

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Catfish, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. darcgun

    darcgun Member+

    Jan 11, 2008
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    yeah... well what is to be expected? does the football world expect stoke to win the league or challenge for the champions league? my point/opinion (yay..opinions are evil) is that yes his football was boring/unsophisticated, however i think for a club of Stoke's size, what else is expected? i'd imagine you'd probably say my opinion is "wrong" but there is no such thing as everybody knows. it seems your point is that Stoke should be challenging for top honours, but i am saying this is unrealistic given their size, monetary budgets/finances and the players they can attract. if you expect a club like Stoke (or similar sized club such as West Brom, West Ham, Fulham, etc.) to challenge or have similar expectations then fine, but i wouldn't agree.

    that eighty million pounds is mostly on average players anyhow. since when does getting a high degree of average players ensure success?

    as for facts, look at this http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/stoke-city-transfers.html

    you think
     
  2. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Although I reserve the right not to be harsh ;) I basically agree with you.

    But since it looks like we've got Wenger for 1 more year at least, I'm trying to give as much credit as seems warranted, and be hopeful that they will REALLY do what we're hearing them say:
    (a) strengthen the squad this summer (including some culling of dead wood I hope)
    (b) start off strong next season, building on the belief from how we finished this past one
     
  3. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    good grief you just typed nothing, LMAO. The point is they spent 80 million to stay 13th. Their has been no progress at the club because Pulis has no idea how to get better.

    good lord, look at what you just typed. LOL. Who's fault is this?

    a) "my facts" came from a Guardian article, not a site that is guessing like this one.
    b) you didnt even look at this link. It comes out to 80.1 million.

    They spent a lot of money and did not progress. If they are a small club and spend 80 million, maybe they want more than the awful football Stoke continuously plays? Maybe they want more than just another 13th place season after spending all that money?

    Like no BS, you constantly make posts just like this.
     
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  4. dwedan

    dwedan Member

    May 14, 2013
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ^^^^This.

    You can spend a lot less than Stoke have and still be mid-table.

    He also tries to convince everyone that his methods are the only way Stoke can play in the EPL, which is just not true.

    As for the quality of football, he could at least try and make any effort to play the ball on the ground every now and then, like West Ham or Sunderland.
     
  5. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Have u watched west ham?
     
  6. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    strangely enough, he kind of sporadically did for bits of last season (er, 11/12).
     
  7. darcgun

    darcgun Member+

    Jan 11, 2008
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    So if he only bought average players, what do people expect? The amount of money per se cannot be the issue. He bought players like Kenwyne Jones or co who hardly are in the van Persie/Rooney/Aguero/Suarez territory. Did the Stoke chairman ever criticise the quality of players bought? Or had ever publically stated that he wants Stoke to challenge?

    I stand by my opinion that given the players he signed and the players he could attract, what else could he have done? What expectations frankly could Stoke have, and this is what you and the media hacks seem to be dismissing.
     
  8. Romfordray

    Romfordray Member+

    Oct 24, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Teams like Stoke cannot attract world class talent. Maybe washed up talent like Owen but not top established talent.
     
  9. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    who's fault is this? Who purchased these average players for stupid high transfer fees.

    I remember the summer Pulis bought Crouch, Wilson Palacios, and Cameron Jerome and the media started talking about Stoke making a push for qualifying for Europe. Those players cost over 23 million all together and were either never good enough or on the downside of their careers.

    He bought players usually in that range. And worst of all he bought the same type of players in terms of playing style.

    dude, he spent 80 million on average players. Thats the problem, lol
     
  10. darcgun

    darcgun Member+

    Jan 11, 2008
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    No, that's not what I mean.

    Average as in not world class, since Stoke cannot attract any higher quality. Was Pulis expected to sign Aguero, Van Persie, Torres, or any other big signing over the past two or three years? I just don't think he warranted the sack since given the resources of the club he did all he could. Most clubs at Stoke's level get similar players, since it's who they they afford/attract.

    As a tangent, Mancini deserved the sack since he did sign big and his league defence was poor.
     
  11. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jeebus fvcking Christ, Darc! You're proving his point.

    Pulis spent way too much on those players that you say are the best they could hope for. He could've spent way less and still 'achieved' what he did. Shouldn't he take the blame for that?
     
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  12. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    [​IMG]
     
  13. PogiGooner

    PogiGooner Member

    Oct 11, 2007
    New Jersey
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  14. darcgun

    darcgun Member+

    Jan 11, 2008
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    lol..

    I'll agree to disagree.

    Yes, his play looked like William Webb Ellis came back from the dead, but I still think given Stoke's resources, I don't think he deserved the sack.
     
  15. WoodDraw

    WoodDraw Member+

    May 29, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    What, are you in second grade? Not only can opinions be wrong, but they often are.

    Also, Santa isn't real.
     
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  16. darcgun

    darcgun Member+

    Jan 11, 2008
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    hmm...

    so saying:

    - indian food is better than chinese food
    - messi is better than maradona was
    - london is a nicer city than nyc

    yep, these are all objective facts, and laws of the universe!!!

    nothing subjective can be "wrong" per se. get with it.
     
  17. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    when did he say all opinions are wrong? good lord lol.

    and yes, you are still very wrong about Pulis. There is no "agree to disagree" option there. His net spend was the 3rd most money in the premiership, only behind the two billionaire clubs.
     
  18. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    what you're saying behind this is fine, but this in itself is not a great comparison as both have spent more, and for longer, than stoke, with at least 1 starting from a much stronger position, and stoke have, almost certainly, "done a spurs" by spending on transfers but not so much on wages.
     
  19. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    im not comparing Stoke to Chelsea and City as saying SToke should be competing for the title every year.

    I am comparing Stoke's spending and their placement in the league and the football they play. The fans and the club were perfectly entitled to get mad at seeing 8 million spent on Wilson Palacios.
     
  20. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    oh, i do agree with your underlining thought that they should be doing much better by now.
     
  21. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Is that necessarily true though? You can't simply look at net transfer spending: you have to look at transfers + wages to see the true cost of a player. That's not to say that Pulis bought terrible players: he absolutely did, but he bought terrible players on because they were terrible so they could play like ogres. Whether he underperformed requires looking at net transfers + wages over a period of five years or so (which is data we happen to have), because there's a certain amount of randomness in league standings in mid-table: there's minimal difference between ninth place and fourteenth most years.

    Pulis's failure isn't that he bought poorly (because you really have to see how they play next season in a different system to evaluate that). His failure is that he failed to evolve tactically as teams started to figure Stoke out. His teams simply never scored enough goals. You can argue that's a result of poor transfers, but it's even more of a result of hoofing it long every single time in a league that values physical play and tall centerbacks, and requires a certain amount of mobility in forward play to consistently score goals. Pulis's tactics drove his poor transfers.
     
  22. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Might I suggest, as politely as I can, that all this talk about Pulis might be better taken to another thread? This is about as off-topic a thread has gotten, as I've seen in a long time. Ta.

    <he says ducking his head>
     
  23. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    *throws sandal. it's off season. threads may as well go off topic until mid-august. at least they're still being posted in.
     
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  24. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Minneapolis
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. LeetOwnage522

    LeetOwnage522 Member

    Mar 26, 2008
    Doodlestan
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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