Ballon d'Or 2012 Thread...

So 2 players missing. And it was post-WC 2006 Ronaldinho, so more like 1.5

 

I realized you did not say it but what the point you put (3,4 times here) the copy of King(jack) stats for? :
Messi 11: 73goals/60games
Pele 58: 69goals/60games (after "BS" era adjusted goals according to their own way)

The point I made was:
- We hope that Messi last season was not his best (yet) right?
- Pele 58 was NOT his best season, but everyone knew (at least Brazil fans and some knowledgeable) that his best years: 62, 61, 59, 65, 58 , 64, 57, 67, 60 ... in the order.

That's why I said that website "randomly picked Pele 58" and compred to Messi 11, was a FLAW (on top of their FLAW conversion method)

Actually 61 and 62 seasons were Pele's best years EVER
- 2x Top Brazil scorer won leagues 62 and 63 (110goals/75games)
- 2x Libertadore cups 62 and 63 (9goals/9games)
- 2x Intercontinental cups 62 and 63 (7goals/3games)

Those were "official and big games" =126goals/87games! Total 2yrs: 182goals/124games.

Just a simple reference:
from 60-70: 90% the topscrers in Brazil scored ~30goals a season (just like today) and Pele got 8xseasons of >40goals and 5 seasons of >50goals.

Meaning: Pele > 5times other topstrikers in consistency and >2times scoring rate ....(in his era)

 

If you don't understand how era-adjustment works, then there really is nothing more to discuss about it.

- Even better than best ever scoring season? One could always hope.
- Nobody said anything about best seasons, the argument was about best scoring season. You don't win only because one player scores goals, winning is a team performance, your goals don't just magically become better or worse if your team wins or loses something.

And again, they didn't randomly pick the years lol.

 

WHast percentage of Pele's goals were the Teams goals?
How many assits did he contribute?

 

Uhuh, let's blame it on Mickey mouse league that he ONLY scored 12goals/14games WC, and ONLY 7goals/3games at 2 intercontinental cups (vs Benfica and Milan) ..
Now if he plays for this Barca (rumor as among the best teams ever) in Liga the arguably best league (depedns on the year) then would he score 20+goals at WC?

Ouff can you remind us how many Messi did until now?

 

over 1000games his average is around 35% team goals
Pele was surely among the TOP assist of ALL time he got minimum 300+ ass career

 

The sweeper position still requires someone to be able to defend somewhat. Matthaus was able to do that. He wasn't the best midfielder in terms of defending, but he could still defend from that position better than Ronaldo can now from his. As Matthaus matured he learned to defend more patiently and inteligently, which made his transition into sweeper more smooth. I don't think Ronaldo can do that.

 

No, the 12 goals in 14 WC games we can thank his teammates in Brazil's NT.

If Pele plays in La Liga now he would score 20+ WC goals? Yeah...right. What does playing in La Liga have to do with scoring WC goals? Find a better joke, will you.....

 

yes and no ...
Yes from 80s to now, Brazil started taking Copa seriously (since they were way behind Uruguay and Argentina)
NO ... 97 only Costarica and Mexico were invited to the cup and they were the weakest teams there
in 99, Japan were the invitee and Uruguay tried the youth team.

In both cases, Argentina sent the A team, espcially 99 they sent FULL A team (more pro's than Brazil who only got 5 big names there)

 

yeah pele NT team mates worked for him just like 15 worldclass Barca working their SS for Messi .
Without them .. ohhh ... you forgot to remind me how many goals Messi did in 2 copas and 2 WCs ...

At least without those NT team mates, Pele still scored for fun with Santos 14years of min 50goals GOSH ...

let's wake up ...and Iam not kidding ... LOL

 

I heard multiple times that Ronaldo has a small penis

 

dude you are so dense, Brazils best national team of all time does not equate to Messi scoring for Argentina. Have you even seen either of them play? I'm really starting to doubt it

 

I watched football since you probably learn how to spell the word ... anyway who cares ...

 

So now Pele assisted like Messi and Maradona? lmao what next, he defended like Maldini and tackled like Nesta? Also what in God's holy name does Cronaldo do in the same sentence with Messi, when talked about creating or assisting goals? They guy haven't assisted even single goal against Barcelona in 19 games, where as Messi is already all time assister in El Clasicos.

 

What are you saying? I just highlighted the names of the two best players in the world then who weren't part of Copa America 2007. Apart from Kaka and Ronaldinho, Brazil also did not have Julio Cesar, Lucio, Luizao, Bastos, Adriano, Luís Fabiano, Nilmar etc. (players who were part of Dunga's first team in those days) while the strikers they took were Vágner Love and Afonso Alves!

 

Who was the best defending midfielder of his era?

Btw, some of the best sweepers could not man mark at all. It is just a separate job as the one of a stopper.

 

Eee... Messi's passes are more like short passes, one-two combinations and some through balls. Don't pass judgement on something you obviously have no clue about.

 

Saw today the 'champions matchday' magazine, UEFA his official Pravda folder.

They talked about "Messi his tactical master class". Which made me wonder: is Messi tactically brilliant?

How do the ones here see it?

 

Not really. Messi doesn't control the game or input much tactically. He is tactically astute, especially now turning into a goal poacher (which requires a combination of great positioning, anticipation and luck), but by no means a genius. Some of his passes are great, but he is chanelling the Barca movement and his passes don't really differ from those by his teammates.

 

CA 97 all teams sent their B/C squad, except for Brazil and the host Bolivia. Same with CA 99, all but Brazil and host Paraguay sent experimental squads. Argentina in CA99 went without Batistuta, Redondo, Simeone, Veron, Ortega, Crespo, Kily, Gallardo, Ayala, Zanetti, Samuel, Almeyda, Lopez, etc. Very far from its first team.

 

Ronaldinho was out of form by then. Second-best in the world? lol He finished behind the likes of Frederic Kanoute in the 2007 Ballon d'Or voting.

 

C/mon man, I thought you are an Argentina pro fan ...

Batistuta Redondo Goykoytcha Rugerri.. they played in previous 2 copa, won 93 and lost 95. So like Ronaldo retired form confed and copa after 2000