The Texan Gets His Spurs: Dempsey at Tottenham [R]

I think Spurs will get a tie and get close to a win (but that's likely asking too much).
Too many believe Spurs have no chance based on history.
I think Clint will start and look better (and most likely keep his place with the result + his performance)

 

Maybe other people feel this way: I want to like this team, but I don't.

With fulham you have the underdog with some salty old veterans, with everton there is the no player left behind. Even Mancity, Chelsea, United have their style of play and players that you can respect even if you dont like them. Arsenal are insufferable but the quick passing counter and Wengers integrity are hard not to admire.

With Spurs you feel they are a high end knock-off and don't know it. They ape the luxury teams in search of an identity and style. Bale seems puerile. Defoe is selfish beyond pale. Lennon is likeable but superficial....there appears to be no heart, no togetherness. I am waxing, but it's tough, because I would really like to like them. Under 'arry there was a likeable humanity to them.

I think like many US fans I am more attuned to relegation battles than jostling for champions league spots. We are always the underdogs and I prefer the drama of excommunication to coronation.

With Dempsey's purchase this was the first legitimate path at following a relatively good club with a good tradition and yet...nothing. No desire to buy jersey, no real interest in how they do beyond dempsey's play/stats. I'll keep watching.

 

Give it some more time Sam. Everyone is jumping to conclusions on not much evidence.

 

It's going to take a while for Tottenham to grow on me (Fulham took a while). All that speed with no where to go; they need to start looking like a "team". Dempsey looks out of sorts on that "team" but new players, new coaches mixed in with what appears to be veteran "non-team-friendly" players (e.g. Lennon, Defoe, Bale) is going to take some time to gel, if ever. Dempsey could start looking really good if Lennon and Bale get used to his runs.

Unfortunately, they need to gel pretty quickly if they have top 4 aspirations.

 

Tottenham has alot of esprit de corps... many of these players have been together a while, including Bale, Lennon, Huddlestone, Dawson, etc. They've suffered through lows, won a league cup, and played in a Champions League together.

You guys are not just watching Spurs try to integrate some new guys like Gylfi and Clint. You're watching a complete change of identity. I do believe they have the personnel to play in AVB's system, and Dempsey and Dembele will really fit well in my opinion. But such a drastic change will not be quick, and it will not be pretty. It will be Tiger Woods changing his swing in 2000. When it's complete, this side will have the potential to be much more effective than Harry's comparatively one-dimensional system.

 

dude, you'd never have the patience to be coach!
you are George Steinbrenner looking for Bob Lemon, Billy Martin to fire.
Relax and enjoy the ride. This team is morphing, and it takes time. But
if AVB can keep a good pace with points during this transition, then he is doing
fine. I agree with last poster that he is building the side to be able to achieve even
higher levels than under Harry- but all cylinders will take time to kick in (we will see
in fits/starts...this weekend?). I think Tiger's swing is perhaps too great an analogy, but
certainly a big adjustment.

Last year, they had 9 points at this point, this year 8.
If they play well or point at Man U, I'd say they remain on a good course.
The points will be easier later in season, when all on same page. Now is the
toughest timie.

 

Can't believe I'm with Sam on this one.

It's kind of the vapid hot chick analogy. You want to like her because she's amazing to look at but every attempt at conversation ends awkwardly.

(I know, I know...this is a testosterone dominated forum and I'm setting myself up for ridicule about actually wanting to establish a meaningful relationship instead of just trundling the tart off to bed.)

 

You mean Huddelstone that was going to be loaned to stoke and dawson who was QPR bound?

What is interesting is they lost one player, Modric who has been fairly open about wanting to leave for 2 years and another player VdV who I think is clearly on the downward part of his career. How is that a complete change? There are some injuries, but every team has injuries and manages to stay a team.

Anyway. I'm watching and hoping the team grows on me.

 

I will take the George S comparison with a tip of my fedora.

 

I'm not sure what your point is. Every player is faced with the possibility at some point that they may be transferred or loaned. Doesn't necessarily affect the bonds he's forged with his teammates.

You seem to have completely missed my point. Their change in identity is due to AVB's stewardship and tactics, which are big change in direction from Redknapp's kick-and-run.

 

Maybe some are not familiar with Spurs but it is our reputation for playing entertaining football, with the results sometimes being the victim. Even when Spurs weren't that good we'd often play good football, just not winning football like United. When we are searching for a manager any suggestion which plays negative football is dismissed immediately that's not how we view ourselves.

Just look at the quotes from the person most synonymous with Spurs football:

"It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory."

"It's no use just winning, we've got to win well."

"We must always consider our supporters, for without them there would be no professional football. It would be better to have more fans watching football the way they like it played, rather than have a few fans watching football the way we would like it played."

The style we've played over the past couple of years has been high tempo and entertaining, which Billy Nick would be proud of. We do have an identity, it's the same identity we had in years past just with a more compete squad. We played similar football with Klinsmann but we famously could give a damn about defending that season. Spurs in recent years have been more rounded that teams that were heavily reliant on a couple players. If people think Spurs are selfish and individualistic now take a gander back at the Berbatov and Keane partnership, they pretty much were the team along with King.

The team thing is truly baffling to me. I haven't heard this anywhere before Dempsey signed with our club. When Spurs are at our best we do work well as a team and this style has been successful for us in the past This seems to be coming from the fact that Dempsey in the first couple matches hasn't been able to keep up with the pace at Spurs or adjust to how we play. It's up to Dempsey to adjust, with the players on squad we're pretty committed to this style. Van Der Vaart had no issues as well as others who have integrated into the squad in years past.

We're a pretty giving team, our best forward last year had 11 assists not only that but set up numerous goals just with his movement.

To compare, players with 5 or more assists

Arsenal - RVP (9), Walcott (8) and Gervinho (6).
Chelsea - Mata (13) and Lampard (5).
Spurs - Ade (11), Bale (10), VDV (7) and Lennon (5) (Lennon spent some time injured)

Players scoring 8 or more goals

Arsenal - RVP (30) and Walcott (8)
Chelsea - Sturridge (11) and Lampard (11)
Spurs - Adebayor (17), Defoe (11), VDV (11), Bale (9)

As I said we have played this way for awhile and been successful. If we had the depthwe could have accomplished a bit more. We bought both Dempsey and Sigurdsson have some sort of continuity, so far is hasn't clicked that doesn't mean there's something wrong with how we've played or that they wont perform, we need to start playing better though.

 

What does that have to do with anything?

No, actually we lost 2 key players. Regardless of how you continually dismiss the importance of these players it doesn't excuse the fact that both these players were very good. Not only that but we lost our inspirational leader, who didn't play many games but was a leader. Those injuries which you gloss over are to 4 critical players on the squad. Then of course we bought a few new players who are integrating into the team. Also we hired a new manager who is radically different in approach to the man who just left.

Does it really matter? Just watch Dempsey.

By the way, just remember this is the "declining" player you speak of, 2 assist and a goal in 3 matches.

 

One more thing, look at how Arsenal started the season last year. Sold 3 key players, bought a few, and had some key injuries. It took them months to gel and find some consistency.

 

But it's the Bundesliga.

 

Good point, the second best league in the world.

 

2 key players. One on the decline. One who didnt want to play for you. My point is, those 2 key players DIDNT WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU! And the other guy was talking about the old guard being a good group of lads, to which I agree, then why did they try and unload both of them!

I will watch Dempsey. And I wrote earlier, I don't know that I would start him and wont be surprised if he's benched.

One win, One Draw, Three Losses. 10 goals against...hmmm, probably not the dominant midfield figure you were hoping for at Hamburg. I haven't watched him since the Euros where he was poor so he might be gang busters, but from end of last season, through Euros he was trending downward dude. You know that.

 

Ade is a different story. I can't wait for him to suit up. He is exactly the kind of player Clint teams up well with. He and Zamora had a very good thing going for a while.

 

Trying to sell Dawson and Thudd imo was the right decision. I like Dawson as guy but he doesn't fit the outlook of this squad. When the season ended last year it was understood that 2 CB would be leaving. Many of us thought King would take a pay as you play deal but he opted to retire. We've tried to sell Bassong for years so that was expected. Everyone thought Gallas would be sold but when AVB was hired bring with him the high line it's clear Dawson isn't cut out for this, he wasn't quick even before the injuries.

Vertoghen and Caulker are the future for the squad and at the present we have Kaboul and Vertognhen. Looking at the depth he's probably 5th choice right now with everyone healthy, Kaboul/Vertonghen/Caulker/Gallas/Dawson. He should be happy the club gave him the chance to sign for a good club like Q.P.R. and start because that's not likely to happen for Spurs going forward regardless of the manager. Even with Redknapp it would have been Kaboul and Vert.

.... Thudd simply doesn't fit the tactical outlook going forward. This would have been the case last year as well with how we played.

I don't know what you were watching. That Dutch side was pretty disjointed and VDV was forced to play deep to accommodate Sneijder and when he did they looked their best attacking. You're so quick to blame Spurs "selfish" players on poor form when Robben was more greedy than Bale ever dreamed of being. By your logic RVP, Robben and Sneijder are declining because they were worse and he scored probably the best Dutch goal of the summer. If he was able to play in his favored position he would have scored and assisted more goals.

.... Also BVM is a crap manager.

Finally VDV loves Spurs, the only reason he left is to support his wife. Hence why he moved to a team which was tipped to finish bottom half before he ever arrived. If his wife was on the TV in England he'd still be at Spurs. Even if HSV finish mid-table that will be better than what people expected. Their position doesn't mean he isn't contributing, nor does it mean he wouldn't contribute if still on the roster.

 

The best being La Liga ?

 

For those uninitiated (Yid, forgive me if you've already covered this), ManU owns us like no other team. In the Harry years, we owned Liverpool, had a great record against Arsenal, did ok against Man City, and did manage some points against Chelsea. No such luck against ManU.

I was thinking to myself that we probably have gotten three points total in the last ten years against ManU in the league. As it turns out, we've gotten five, and have been outscored 42-9. I mean, we're talking USMNT at Azteca bad.

 

Actually, that's what defines the Spurs. They're the Libertarian team par excellence. Each player on his own, trying to score points with the management. From time to time, such individualism produces beauty.

 

Yes like Gareth Bale's moment of individual brilliance where beats the Norwich defense by himself and finishes. A goal the benefit of individual skill and not teamwork.

.... Or maybe, the ball from Modric and the run off the ball from Adebayor gave Bale the space to do what he does best, "teamwork" if you will. Just because he galloped past their defense it doesn't mean that he owes his teammates some credit for that goal.

 

Don't let the "quote" button hit you on the way out. I won't miss you.

 

please don't make the mistake of taking Supercooper or Sam Hamwhich too seriously.

That can lead to health issues.

 

Except vdv only played in one of those losses, you know that. I'm sure you also know that the last two draws were against two of the best Bundesliga teams.