no news from my friend at tln but it looks like all directions are pointing to either TLN or Gol Tv as the main options for beIN SPORT Canada
Rogers Media paid $6 million ($2 million/season) for EPL during the current cycle, then sublicense 70 matches to Bell Media (TSN2 & RDS2) and a whole bunch of others to Quebecor Media in French only (TVA Sports). I am assuming sublicensing fees of around $3 mllion ($1 million/season.) If Rogers were to clear about $3 million in pre-tax profit total from its EPL telecasts across all network, then it would clear around $9-10 million over 3 seasons. $10 million in pre-tax operating profit + $6 million rights fee = $16 million. If the Sheik were to believe that Rogers Media won't go higher than $16 million, then he will bid $20 million. However, if the Sheik were to believe the following based on the "growth": 100000 subscribers will be willing to take Sportsnet World at $20/month (instead of $17) for 10 month a year, and 30000 subscribers belong to Rogers Cable so that Rogers Communications, Inc. as a whole will collect all $20/month without having to split the fee 50/50 with another MSO, then, 30000 subs x $20/sub/month x 10 months/year = $6 million in fees from Rogers Cable subs 70000 subs x $10/sub/month x 10 months/year = $7 million/year in fees from other MSOs In other words, Sportsnet World would be capable of generating up to $13 million/year or $39 million over 3 years in subscriber fees if it were to retain EPL. In that case, sheik Hamad Al-Thani would want to bid $47-50 million in order to be sure that he will obliterate Rogers Media at the EPL rights auction for Canada on or around October 5.
Who pays $20 a month for a single sports channel these days? HBO alone doesn't even cost $20. Who pays $20 a month for just the EPL in the US or Canada?
Sportsnet World now costs $17/month, and the big EPL matches on Sportsnet World on Sundays at 11am ET reportedly draws over 90,000 viewers. You can do the math yourself how many subscribers are willing to pay $17 month to watch EPL in Canada. Answer: a lot more on a per-capita basis than in the U.S.
I do.. but we stream it to hundreds of thousands That said, I do agree.. it is a bit much for a single channel.. it was $15/mo, my recent bill is showing it at $19/mo. I think 5-10/mo is a bit more reasonable. In their defense, they (Rogers) are putting cricket on the channel, rugby (Super 15, UK-Engage, etc..) to bolster the content -- and value of it in my opinion. So I respect atleast that move, they aren't just making it 24/7 Premier League live+re-runs.
90000 "viewers" doesn't mean 90000 subscribers. Edit: btw, didn't someone earlier in the thread point out that your 90K number was odd?
Here's the deal. I *KNOW* the exact number of subscribers Sportsnet World has, and it is not 100,000. I also *KNOW* Sportsnet World's total subscription income regardless of carrier, and it is not $13 million, let alone the $20 million you project before subtracting carrier fees. From extrapolation, I also *KNOW* the market share that Rogers Cable has, and it is not 30% (30,000 out of 100,000). Your numbers are toast. And even if they weren't toast, they assume that TV stations don't have expenses, or that the sheikh is stupid enough to bid as if they didn't.
Then put up the numbers you "KNOW". Time for you to PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Otherwise, you are just a blowhard, and a blowhard who is 100 times the blowhard that you accuse me to be.
To give you an example of how Sheik Al-Thani may have come up with the bid for U.S. rights to La Liga: GOLTV (USA) collected $0.15/month/subscriber from 13 million subscribers: $0.15/month/sub x 12 months/year x 13 million subs = $23.4 million/year ESPN Deportes (USA) collected $0.15/month/sub from 6 million subs: $0.15/month/sub x 12 months/year x 6 million subs = $10.8 million/year GOLTV (USA) and ESPN Deportes (USA) combined earn around $34.2 million/year, or $102.6 million over 3 years. So what did Sheik Hamad Al-Thani bid for U.S. rights to La Liga for August 2012-May 2015? Somewhere around $135 million over 3 seasons (or $35 million/season.) Welcome to the world of Sheik Hamad Al-Thani, who figures out how much the incumbent(s) can collect in subscriber fees in the best case scenario, and bid at least 120% of that amount to be absolutely sure that he obliterates the incumbent(s).
It is probably around the 50,000 subscribers Setanta had in Canada before they went out of business in the UK
As of the beginning of 2012, Sportsnet World had 82,523 subscribers. Given the declining rate of growth of the station, they will almost certainly not reach 90,000 at the end of the year. It would take Sportsnet 3-4 years to reach your 100,000. At no point in the history of the channel have there been 90,000 TVs tuned into an EPL game. Assuming that a small fraction of subscribers are ever watching the channel at any point in time, I don't think there have ever been 90,000 people watching Sportsnet World at the same time, either. I won't even comment on your previous claim of a 90,000 average, as this is obviously impossible. In 2011 (2012 numbers not in yet), Sportsnet World made $9,248,082 in subscriptions and $9,453,212 in total revenue (note that people don't like to advertise in Sportsnet World much). It made a profit of $1,909,80, which might be a bit of a blip since it is twice as high as the previous two years. To put this into perspective, these figures (revenue and profit) are very similar to those of the video game station, and I don't see the sheikh blowing $50 million on the rights to the Starcraft Premier League. In April, Canada passed the 10 million digital TV subscribers mark according to a specialist publication. Rogers Cable has 2.25 million subscribers according to Wikipedia. That would be 22,500 out of your 100,000 projected. Rogers Cable's share of the Canadian market will likely keep going down, as the provinces it serves are growing much more slowly than the provinces it doesn't serve, so by the time Sportsnet World actually hits 100,000 subscribers, if ever, Roger Cable's share of it will no longer be 22.5%. A last point of perspective: Rogers Sportnset period has a revenue of $217 million (20-something Sportsnet Worlds) and a pre-tax profit of $31 million (15+ Sportsnet Worlds). That is how much Rogers cares about Sportsnet World. Good night.
OK, let's use 90,000 as the AVERAGE number of subscribers of Sportsnet World during the mid-point of the next EPL contract cycle (if Rogers Media were to keep EPL) in January 2015. And use 22.5% as the share of Sportsnet World subscribers that Rogers Cable has. 90,000 x 22.5 % = 20,250 Sportsnet World subscribers that belong to Rogers Cable Sportsnet World now costs $19/month, up from $17/month last year and $15/month two years ago. At this rate, Sportsnet World will cost $23/month at the mid-point of the next contract cycle. 20,250 subs x $23/month/sub x 30 months = $13.97 million in fees collected by Rogers Communications Inc. from Rogers Cable customers for Sportsnet World 69,750 subs x $11.50/month/sub x 30 months = $24.06 million in fees collected by Rogers Sportsnet from other MSO customers for Sportsnet World Total: $38.03 million in subscriber fees collected by Rogers from all MSO customers for Sportsnet World So I was off by $1 million with my previous $39 million estimate using round numbers ($20/month/sub, 100000 subs, 30% market share for Rogers Cable.) Off by $1 million (less than 3%), and you said my numbers were "toast"? I came pretty damn close for someone who has never worked a minute inside the cable TV "cosa nostra". Coming within 3% makes you very uncomfortable, eh? Using the $38 million estimate, I now project that Sheik Hamad Al-Thani will bid $46-50 million (120-130% of projected subscriber revenue for Sportsnet World for August 2013-May 2016) for Canadian video rights to EPL for August 2013-May 2016, instead of the $47-50 million I estimated earlier with round numbers. In any case, Rogers Media will be blown away by beIN SPORT LLC, regardless of whether beIN SPORT LLC were to partner with TeleLatino Network (EuroWorld Sport), MLSE (GOLTV Canada), or another Canadian media company (to apply for a new CRTC licence.) Remember that Sheik Hamad Al-Thani is approaching the soccer TV business as a public relations exercise, designed to show the rest of the world how powerful he is. As we have already seen with beIN SPORT 1 USA, Sheik Al-Thani has no intention of generating any revenue at all for at least 12 months (never mind "making money", we are talking "zero net subscriber revenue".) The same will apply with beIN SPORT 1 Canada. Look for Sheik Al-Thani to shower Bell TV and Shaw Direct with expensive launch fees in order to purchase bandwidth on both Canadian DBS systems within 30 days of closing a partnership deal with either TeleLatino Network or MLSE so that beIN SPORT 1 Canada will be available via DBS in Canada, preferably in time for Barcelona vs Real Madrid and AC Milan vs Inter Milan on October 6-7. TeleLatino Network President Aldo di Felice better not blow this deal (like he did when GOLTV Inc. came calling in 2005) by asking for too much money now that Youssef is apparently sniffing around MLSE as well.
Correction: CBC sublicensed the FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup to Sportsnet and Sportsnet World, not TeleLatino Network's EWS. One would have to suspect that TeleLatino declined to sublicence FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup from CBC in preparation for the conversion of EWS into beIN SPORT 1 Canada, assuming of course that TeleLatino were able to close the deal. EWS still has a big programming problem effective August 17 at 10pm ET: no events, no news, no tape to run, nothing. The cupboard is completely empty.
2 different sources told me within the past 3 days that Dunlop left Score Media last week. Furthermore, Brendan.Dunlop@sportsnet.ca is a VALID email address that does not bounce.
Well I have definitely seen him on TV this week. Also, rio.ferdinand@sportsnet.ca is a VALID email address that does not bounce.
Time to correct a few things here. Sportsnet has not sub-licensed EPL rights to TVA Sports. Since it came on the air a year ago, TVA hasn't shown one Premier League match, let alone "a bunch". Telelatino has never sub-licensed English-language rights to any FIFA tournament. TLN has 3rd-language (Italian and Spanish) rights to all FIFA tournaments through 2014. Whether they choose to show the Women's U20 World Cup is another matter. Furthermore, there is no chance Sportsnet/World is showing the Women's U20 World Cup in Italian or Spanish (hence, CBC didn't choose Sportsnet over TLN). For example, last year CBC partnered with Sportsnet to show both the Women's World Cup and Men's U20 World Cup. Both tournaments still aired on TLN.
o oliver you are full of bs. i mean they payed only 2 mill a year in canada for epl for years now and epl draws 90000 viewers who told you to spread this propaganda on web all the time. serious question do you work for epl and they told you to promote this propaganda because you and they know that some people from bein is reading this forum so promoting propaganda like epl is most popular league blah blah blah will make bein believe it and then they will pay more then they have to for epl rights.
NBFootballFan is 100% accurate with regards to TLN and their partnership with CBC. TLN can air all FIFA tournaments up until 2014 provided they are in Italian or Spanish.
Population of USA = 10 x Population of Canada. 90000 EPL viewers in Canada is equivalent to 900,000 EPL viewers in the U.S. EPL typically draws around 200,000 U.S. viewers on FOX Soccer, and around 300,000 viewers on ESPN2. On a per-capita basis, EPL is at least twice as popular in Canada compared to the U.S., even if you account for the differences in TV ratings systems which tends to undercount U.S. viewers by 20-25% compared to Canadian viewers.
Rights to EPL have always been undervalued in Canada. When FOX Sports Int'l paid $57 million for the rights two cycles ago in the U.S. (2007-2010), Score Media paid only $3 millon in Canada for the same rights and Score Media only kept the Sunday 11am ET matches (with Setanta Sports Canada sublicensing the rest). The rights did NOT increase in value much in the U.S. last cycle (2010-2013) due to the economic crisis and the lack of competition, but they did double in value in Canada because Rogers Media (which had majority ownership of Setanta Sports Canada) decided to take control of the rights on its own without Score Media involved as a middleman. The presence of beIN SPORT 1 Canada will change that, regardless of whether TeleLatino, MLSE, some other media company were to partner with beIN SPORT LLC.
Yet any match involving Barcelona or Real Madrid can't "sell" unless they're playing each other? i love this answer
This discussion is about Canada, and in Canada, yeah. La Liga isn't that popular here. Let's not derail it with talk of which teams sell in America.