How Would the new Cosmos affect the Red Bulls

I think it is a bad idea to have a second "NY" team. Look at our attendance. I am sure there are other places like Orlando that should get a team first. If you are a fan of our team and jump ship, then whats that say about yourself? I do like the fact we would be Jersey's team.

 

How is Chivas doing being the second team in LA?

 

They would be NY's team, cause they would be in NY, somewhere. They don't have a place to play now, but it won't be right in the heart of NYC. I don't see what is so hard about getting to RBA from anywhere.

I want this team to be Jersey's team.

There are better places for a new MLS team, like Orlando City. They have been doing pretty good down there.

 

Our attendance is fine, we are one of the better teams when it comes to attendance. It's just Heck and his weird schedules and lack of marketing the team.

 

And who say that the NY2 will be Cosmos.....

 

Our attendance is fine? I have been to every game this season and the turnouts have not been fine. If there is a NY2 it will be Cosmos.

 

Where are you getting this idea that a stadium out at the far end of Queens is any easier to get to than RBA? What's so inconvenient about transferring at lower Manhattan's biggest subway hub to a 15 minute PATH ride that accepts subway cards? For anyone in lower Manhattan and most of Brooklyn its actually far easier to get to RBA than it is to get to the area near Citifield... The only reason the Queens location benefits NY2 is for the people who would take pride in having a NYC zip code instead of a NJ one, logistically its in no way a better location for fans to access.

As far as impact on attendance if Cosmos do set up in Queens as NY2, it may split some of the Manhattan fans but other than that it would probably pull most of its fans from Long Island like RB does from Jersey, so we'd just end up with 2 teams in NY struggling for attendance. The problem in NY is that our soccer fans don't give a shit about MLS yet because the quality of play is not world class, not which teams are here and where they are located.

We're not filling the stadium, but we're middle of the pack compared across MLS when it comes to attendance and were near the top end of the list last year. If your standards for "fine" attendance is a nearly packed stadium every game then you'd have an issue with 95% of the league.

 

well Cosmos just announced they will enter NASL and that the NASL business model is better for them because they get to keep control and 100% ownership of their brand, and no salary cap. So for now i would say Cosmos will indeed be NYC's team---in the 2nd division
I guess 5 yrs down the line we'll be better able to judge how this move will work out for them, but im not holding my breath. I hope for their sake it turns out well.

 

I took out all the extraneous location stuff* to get down to the real reason why NY2 Cosmos can thoroughly destroy RBNY.

RBNY sucks, they can't keep season ticket holders and can not make a local connection to the market. It wouldn't matter if the stadium was in Queens. It's the ownership and the FO not having a damned clue. It's ownership focusing on brand first, soccer second. It's ownership being overseas (Where is the oversight? Why has not Heck been fired yet?).

MLS is screaming for an alternative in the market because Red Bull is such an abject failure. Everything else is window dressing. All the Cosmos have to do if they get into MLS is not fail and the market is theirs and RBNY are permantly irrelevant.



* To boot :
Chivas is every bit as bad a "brand" for MLS and every bit as arrogant as RBNY is. Worse on some levels. That is the real reason
Nowhere is easy to get to in LA
It is easier to get to RBA than it would be to Queens for most public transportation riders in NYC

 

I know quite a few folks who live off the A, C, 2, 3, 4, 5, and L trains. RBA is pretty easy to get to according to these guys. Instead of the dividing lines being the Hudson/East Rivers, I think the dividing lines will be what train(s) do you take to get to your stadium of choice?

If' you're a north Brooklyn person, and don't own a car, maybe RBA is your choice. If you're an outer borough resident WITH a car, I suppose the Flushing Meadows site may be logical. If you're going to rely on the G train to connect with the 7 train, damn, that'll be REALLY tough.

 

I understand the gripes from STH, Heck hasn't treated them all that well, but what exactly is it that you think another NY team would do in Queens to make a local connection that RB hasn't tried? RB does a lot of community outreach, the players are constantly doing charity events, often with local soccer organizations. From what I've heard they've basically rained free tickets on the local immigrant communities and nobody bites.

The problem is still that people in NY just don't give a shit about the MLS. Its not like soccer fans in the area are sitting around going "Ya know I love MLS but I hate the Red Bulls! If only another team came I'd go!", they're going "MLS is garbage and I don't care where you put the stadium or how much you try to connect with the locals."

 

If the team is named the "Cosmos," then the connection is already made because the old Cosmos were outstanding at making the local connection between fans, players, and front office.

The new team would have instant goodwill (assuming they don't screw it up).

That's the value of an established brand.

 

Attempts at making ties to the community in the 70's probably won't have a heck of a lot of influence on today's generation of soccer fans. Although I can definitely see some of the area's more pretentious soccer fans climbing on board at least initially just because of the team's former glory.

 

Are the modern day Sounders, Timbers, and Whitecaps fans "pretentious?"

No, they are happy to have a familiar brand to root for.

It's a -- "My dad was a Sounders/Timbers/Whitecaps fan, and so am I" -- kind of thing.

Why should New York/New Jersey soccer fans be any different?

The Cosmos brand was remarkably well respected -- and the front office treated the fans incredibly well.

Those good feelings will carry over to the new Cosmos.

However, if the new Cosmos hire a guy like Chris Heck, then all bets are off.

 

First off, have you ever been to Seattle or Portland? Imagine wandering around NYC, and in every sports bar instead of Giants, Jets, Yankees, Mets, Rangers posters and schedules hanging on the walls of every sports bar, its just the Red Bulls and one other team. The Pacific NW are cities full of sports fans deprived of professional sports, of course they'll show up to MLS games in masses...

I think you're overplaying the "heritage" aspect of the old NASL teams, I grew up in the area and don't know a single person, soccer fan or otherwise, who even know the slightest thing about the Cosmos.

 

My dad was a Packers fan. I like the Vikings. He also liked the Yankees and I don't like anything about NY.

 

The association with the team was that it was star-laden with a lot of name players with cache. And they won games and scored A LOT of goals. That helped develop a "connection". That connection died when the stars left. Being born in the mid 70s, once all the stars left the Cosmos, nobody seemed as interested. Let's not forget that part.

I went to one game as a kid. Not many people were there.

 

I'd love the idea of the inner city rivalry if...

1. I thought we'd have enough fans to fill both stadiums comfortably.

2. That we wouldn't be considered the red-headed stepchild of the rivalry.

End of story is pretty much the same. We need to win some trophies, and fast. Get our name on the map as the big brother.

 

I can't say as much for Vancouver as I can for Portland and Seattle, but yes. They are incredibly pretentious.

 

I'm not opposed to a new team coming to Queens. It'll be nice to have a rival. If they were in Manhattan it would be an issue, but I feel in Queens that can serve Long Island well. Besides, the majority of Red Bulls fans are from Jersey anyway.

As for it being named "Cosmos"...I don't object to that name. I think it's probably preferable, but not essential. After all, Queens is incredibly diverse and full of immigrants. What percentage of current Queens inhabitants weren't there when Pele played for the Cosmos? I bet a lot of young soccer fans in Queens probably won't be able to say "my parents rooted for the Cosmos."

 

Though I've been going to NY1 games since the start, I've never felt a deep connection with the club due to the branding of the club. Always found the club name awkward (NY/NJ Metrostars, MetroStars, RBNY, NY RedBulls) and the logo and kits pretty bland. Perhaps in a few years when RedBull ownership get bored and sells the club there will be a proper rebrand (New York Metros?) and maybe that will help the club get the community to embrace it more. As others have mentioned, I can certainly see hardcore fans in lower manhattan and Southern Brooklyn preferring to travel to Harrison, NJ over Flushing, Queens for games, thus they would probably remain fans of NY1.

 

First of all I disagree, that any team in Queens would basically divide up the fans from Manhattan/Queens/Brooklyn, Bronx, Westchester etc.... There are many more soccer fans who I believe would be attracted to MLS soccer (either Red Bulls or the team TBD in Queens) from having the increased media attention (currently almost nil) and rivalry plus drawing on fans from Long Island who are too far away to attend the Red Bull games on a regular basis. The Red Bulls would also likely draw more fans from NJ due to the same factors.

This is Marketing 101.

Lastly, let's not overlook TV Ratings. This is the holy grail for this league which is probably the main reason for the 2nd team in this area which is the largest media market in the country. The ratings this year are up over 70% on NBC Sports in comparison to FSC last year and up 12% and 18% on ESPN vis a vis last year and the prior year respectively. All of the leagues TV contracts are up in a little over 2 years. If these numbers keep accelerating then MLS might actually get some real money for the bids for the new deals and that means more money for player salaries which leads to much better playing levels, higher TV ratings and attendances, etc........

 

Its not that I don't think that in the long run it could be good having 2 teams in the area, just that I believe having the second team right now will do next to nothing to fix the problems that MLS is having in the area. Soccer fans in the area don't follow the Red Bulls mainly because they feel that the quality of play throughout MLS is poor and not worth investing their time into, so I don't think the "marketing 101" stuff you mentioned really wouldn't have much of an effect. The quality of play in the league is improving at a fantastic rate, but until it gets to the point where soccer fans feel its worth watching over the Euro leagues a second NY team won't really fix anything.