Let's talk about Jurgen (serious discussion only, please)

With Low as his tactician(and his team considered an underdog) his system worked. With Vazquez (and his team a heavy favorite) he was panned by management, fans and even players.

 

Fine.

I don't buy it.

I don't buy that Vazquez has no tactics (at least in general terms). Lahm said that players got together and worked on tactics by themselves. If they were good and smart enough to do it, why can't the American players do it as well?

PS. This doesn't mean that I like tactics as given by the current coaching staff but you can't say they have no tactics either as they have used half a dozen of different formations at the very least.

JK and MV also used a bunch of different formations with Bayern.

Now, how detailed are his instructions? Last season, Rafael van der Vaart said that he enjoyed playing for 'arry Redknapp because 'arry, unlike vdV's previous manager, didn't torture them with the endless classroom studies but merely set forth a basic set of instructions.

How's Klinsmann "lack of tactical instructions" different from Redknapp's and is it necessarily a bad thing?

 

And then destroyed Sir Alex Ferguson's team the next year when flights weren't grounded by a volcano.

This isn't "serious" discussion, that he lost to Guardiola's Barcelona. The ultimate stretch.

 

I agree, but there was some factual basis for not wanting vazquez in his current position. The barca nonsense is my fault.

 

VDV had a terrible back half of the season. Harry was fired today. The best coaches I have seen are meticulous about keeping formation, ruthless in player assessments, and tactically more concerned with winning than theoretically adventuresome. I am not convinced JK is seasoned enough to have a #2 who is equally unseasoned and largely unsuccessful in delivering results over theory.

Lahm said they received virtually no instruction, as I recall. They didnt know what to do. That is about as condemning of a statement you can make in professional football especially in the Bundesliga where if you play against a Felix team that at least knows what HE wants them to do, you generally lose...by a lot. Bremen torched this team for 5 goals. I think they let in 5 goals in 3 or 4 matches. Sorry, that is not acceptable.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...in/08/26/Jurgen.Klinsmann.crticism/index.html

Lahm's main crime, it seems, was writing frankly about the training regimes under various coaches. His verdict on the short reign of Jurgen Klinsmann at Bayern (July 2008 to April 2009) was less than flattering. "We practiced little more than fitness. Tactical things were neglected. The players had to get together before [the games] to discuss how we wanted to play. After six or eight weeks, all players knew it wouldn't work with Klinsmann. The rest of the season was damage limitation."

 

That's not the point.

Harry has been incredibly successful with Tottenham.

I agree.

When his hire was bandied about in 2006 - the memorable "no deal" handshake with Gulati - I proposed him hiring his own Stuttgart and Mannschaft teammate Guido Buchwald, who was coming off being named a Coach of the Year in the J-League.

I would have also accepted Augenthaler (who was riding higher then than now), Littbarski or even a veteran BL trainer like Jürgen Röber, Marco Kurz or Ewald Lienen.

Vazquez would have at best been a #3.

Alas.

They got torched by Bremen with Diego and Özil because Uli assembled a defense that included Dimichelis and Lell.

That said, I don't exclude a possibility that he gives poor, incoherent or contradicting instructions.

But how do we know this for certain?

 

Talking of Harry and Jurgen there is speculation on the possibility of Klinsmann taking over the Spurs job in credible media outlets.

 

Listen to his talks with the press? Watch the USMNT games?

 

I don't know why Harry gets a free ride. He had Adi, VDV, Bale, Santos, Assouwahtever, Brad, Modric, Defoe, among others. That is very good, very expensive talent. He was found out late in the season when managers who actively manage began to game plan him. Bale was no longer given those long runs from midfield, VDV can be shadowed as Germany showed us, etc.

What if the same holds true for JK? Guatemala knew what they were doing. More shots on goal and better scoring opportunities.

At any rate, I'd like to see consideration given to a #2 who might not have the charisma that most want, but has experience winning matches. Any of the coaches you mentioned would likely be better.

 

Except Harry is anything but.

There's a YouTube clip of his interview - he did TV commentary for ... BBC?, I think - at halftime of the Germany-England'2006 disaster and he quickly, and properly, IMO, determined the cause of the developing English defeat and it was entirely based on Capello's inability to match the formations and assignments with Löw's.

Harry had it pegged instantly.

PS. And it was a "I want more money or I am quitting - You can't quit 'cos I'll fire you first" type of a deal with Spurs. Redknapp has a big offer in Qatar or he could resurface at whatever EPL team gets jittery first.

If I were coaching Southampton or West Ham, I'd be getting really nervous just about now (Harry actually lives on the South Coast and would drive to London for matches).

End of Threadjack.

 

Hearsay.

 

link?

 

Which makes harry potentially a great commentator (I'd like to see more of him) but not necessarily manager. Which might also be said for JK.

It is clear Harry has a lot of experience, but unlike Woy, I haven't seen him do more with less. At least not recently. Even his FA teams were stacked with talent.

 

Ah, by mentioning both players by name you put too much emphasis on them, instead of on just the 'sub-to-kill-of' fact.

I just like to call him Beckerham as Klinsmann used to portray him as a world class player who was better at playing the 6 than anyone else (Jones, Bradley, Edu, etc.) - because paraphrasing "Kyle does exactly what I tell him to do".
Klinsmann spent the first months of his reign building a team on Kyle's shoulders; The Perfect Six.

He claimed:
“Right now, Kyle and Maurice start to read each other because they go into battles differently. I need to have midfielders understand that they have to go into this battle risking to lose it, but when the other guys reads it he’s going to win it for you. Maurice and Kyle are doing that really well right now, and that’s why it’s also difficult for Michael breaking back in.”, speaking about "chemistry" and "tandems"; how Chandler and Shea formed this great tandem.

""I need to make very important decisions on who in midfield fits the best. Maybe their might be somebody on the bench that thinks, 'I have to play there. I’m better than these guys.' But it doesn’t match into our overall picture. The fan will say, ‘That’s terrible about how that guy* isn’t playing. It’s impossible.’ He might individually seem like a better player, but I have to read and say, ‘He might be a better individual player but he doesn’t help us as a team.’"

*Read between the lines: Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones.

2012: Shea gone, Chandler gone, Edu a question mark and Kyle a Thirty Second Player.

 

Harry is great at motivating players and getting the most out of them at times.

He is a horrible tactician.

US will NEVER EVER have a sir alex, mourinho, bosque, capello type manager. it isnt happening till we get our talent to the level those guys want to coach at.

JK is probably one of the better names to get RIGHT NOW. I think Vasquez is fine too. I dont know why there is so much handwringing about JK and Vasquez.

The team is performing with similar results RIGHT NOW BUT they are playing better possession football and have shown some moments that are beyond anything we have seen before.

This is a 2 year project leading up to world cup. I will hold reservations and wait to see how we look in the world cup.

Also the changes in the youth and developement will have to take hold and take time. I hope he stays on once coaching is done.

I think people keep wanting to plug in coaches when it really comes down to players make it happen.

I think in Harrys case he was doomed the moment we finished 4th. We had a 13 point lead. He flubbed it and got what he deserved. he is good at motivating players to perform. he didnt do that and looked lost against villa.

You draw with Aston villa? seriously?

not good enough with that talent.

 

I've read it a couple of times over the last two days but could only find this link still active.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18436663

"Everton manager David Moyes has been installed as one of the early favourites, along with Rafael Benitez, Roberto Martinez, Andre Villas-Boas and ex-Spurs striker Jurgen Klinsmann, currently coach of the United States."

Hardly rock solid I grant you.

 

Mourinho talked about one day managing the US, if his kids were in college here. I think it was a Grant Wahl interview. That would put him in the 2022 cycle i think. Anyway, you are probably right, but we now have evidence that the US is willing to pay more and that the profile of the team is higher - so not as absurd a notion as maybe 10 years ago.

 

I've never understood the strength of this indictment as it relates to the USMNT.

The Bundesliga is arguably the most tactically astute league in arguably the most tactically astute nation in the world. To say Klinsmann provided very little tactical instruction has to be understood through Lahm's lense. Does that mean zero instruction before a match or at pratice or just far less than the deepest instruction he's received? What's the most Lahm ever received and how did Klinsmann's reign, which included Loew, compare?

As we all know, the US is one of the less tactically astute nations. A tactical neophyte to Die Mannschaft might seem like a deep thinker in comparison to Bradley or Arena, frankly. He might not, but I'm not sure I take Lahm as a good barometer for what happens with the US.

 

According to my calculations, the next FIFA ranking is going to see the USA drop to around 35-37.

A reflection that this team was expected to defeat Guatemala even as visitors, and to not concede goals at home to A&B.

It's those little details that bug me. Because, all things said, I don't think the USA deserved a win there, or a bigger win here. They got the fair results. And that's worrisome.

 

It is funny but more than a few of the people posting have ended their posts with questions such as:

what now?
Where are we headed?

 

Klinsmann immediately and actively destroyed the tactical basics of his Bayern team, and replaced them with more or less nothing. They had set a Bundesliga record for goals against the season before, Klinsmann had the same players - and thought it was a good idea to try a back 3 instead of a back 4. He could have just let them play like before, but apparently he wanted to set a Klinsmann stamp on the team; he just didn't or couldn't explain to them in detail how they should play in his new formation.
"Less instruction" is one thing, but "destroy the working basics and give no instruction" is quite another.

 

I won't say Klinsmann is outright bad in terms of tactics, but I don't think he was overly prepared or ready for his CONCACAF opponents, both in the friendly against Canada and in our early qualifying games. That could be due to those below him, or it could fall on JK, tough to say.

Certainly Bradley seemed to spring more tactical surprises than Klinsmann, like our countering play that resulted in 2 goals against spain, or our amazingly quick start in the final against Brazil. I give Klinsmann credit for the same type of thing in our result against Italy, but to a lesser degree, seeing as it was only a friendly and not the Italian A team. Impressive nonetheless.

I still don't think Klinsmann is using the MLS enough. Ignoring his own domestic league could prove his downfall. Nor do I think he has the understanding of the US style of play within CONCACAF, and how it relates to MLS play, as well as how MLS players can fit into the national team. Obviously Bradley knew more in these regards, having made his career as an MLS coach.

While I miss Bradley, and am not yet sure about Klinsmann, I don't mean to turn everything into a debate between the two, as they each certainly have their merits, and Klinsmann has the potential to bring soccer in the US farther than it ever has been...I just can't deny the sinking feeling in my stomach that Klinsmann is our equivalent of when Mexico brought in Sven Goran Eriksson.