I think Kljestan's defensive ability is often significantly underrated. The best games I've seen from him for the US have had him in a more defensive role (most notably the 2-0 win against Mexico last cycle), as has his club success, but for the national team he's mostly been in a more attacking role the last few years.
We'll get better with time. It's the hardest thing to develop in soccer, especially at the international level where players meet relatively infrequently. It also requires confidence, willingness to take some risks and some other intangibles. The biggest difference I saw in the Scotland game in which we linked up well is the team was more willing to just try stuff, even if it cost us possession. Even the best teams struggle with this. Germany and France dominated possession against their opponents in their opening games in Euros, but looked very toothless around the box. Both teams were missing that final pass to break down the defense or pull them out of shape. But they also played like they understood that a turnover could leave them exposed to a dangerous counter.
he wouldn't be a "left mid" as in a flat 442 in a diamond anyway. The majority of the width comes from the backs coming forward, and the forwards going wide to allow the mids into the center going forward. A diamond is played something like this: dolo-----Goodson------Boca-------Johnson ---------------------Jones-------------- --------------MB----------Benny -------------------Donovan---------------- -----------------------------Dempsey -------------Jozy----------------------- Johnson comes forward combining with Benny and Dempsey for width on the left. Donovan makes plays, and MB comes forward with Dolo allowing the CBs and Jones to mind the shop. It is a narrow formation and is somewhat out of fashion (save for MLS), so it might not work for all situations. You need your #6 to be a quasi centerback so the cb's can go wide for defense covering the backs that have pushed up. But it might fit this team better than the current setup.
It all comes down to player ability. Playing a possession game assumes that the defense is organized in the back and it requires more precise quick touches closer to the goal. The US does not have players that can execute this gameplan and the players available are aging. Klinsman´s system would have worked better 10 years ago.
I seem to be saying the same thing in every thread, but to me the answer to many problems is simple. Play Jones as the 6. He is the best 6 we have by a country mile, his technical ability, passing and possession skills are just adequate in a more advanced role, but as a 6 they are excellent. He is more athletic, has more bite and is a much better ball winner than Edu or Beckerman. In short, he would instantly be a massive upgrade in every single facet if played in his natural position as a destroyer. That would in turn free up one of the more advanced CM roles for a better overall player than Edu or Beckerman, such as Torres, Sacha, Williams, etc.
Jones play has been called by Lowe ( I think) as too erratic. We've seen the same. Its quite possible he's not disciplined enough for the 6 in JK's system. Just one possibility. Its also possible that they came in with one gameplan that called for 2 dmids. They created their depth chart for it and then when it came time to adapt, Jones was one of the best 2way mids on the roster. Also a possibility, that the US doesn't have enough ball winnng CMs that can play the high pressure game in the middle that JK wants to do- which is why he is playing three dmids... Jones ability offensively is much better than Edu's and none of the offensive minded mids that were not called- can replace his ball winning and high pressure ability. Lots of reasons why that might not be the best solution.
So... he is too erratic to play the more limited DM role, the one that he has played very well his entire career and currently plays for a Champions League club, yet he is also steady enough to lead the USMNT in minutes played this cycle? Weird. It is also possible that even if that were the case, it was a mistake and therefore a valid point for us discuss. Also a possibility that we don't need more ball winning mids if Jones is playing the DM and/or we are playing a team we will dominate possession wise and is sitting back absorbing pressure, an oppnent that requires someone with the skills to unlock a packed defense. Not airtight reasons and in my opinion at least there are many more and more convincing reasons to try that solution. Also, Jones has 24 caps for us, not one single time has he started as a 6, the position he has excelled at his whole career, that is mind boggling to me.
I think it's this with the following addition - I think Jones has the best ball-winning and ball-keeping ability on our team. He excels at getting 50/50 balls, then holding off the strong initial challenges - what the Germans call "Zweikampf". I'd be interested to see numbers on these particular events. Almost any other player (with the possible exception of Dempsey) will almost immediately lose the ball in those situations. And I think Klinsmann wants that ability farther up the field to give the team the chance to move up together, without the ball immediately getting pinged back toward our side of the field.
Good rationale. It it futher reinforces keeping the ball away from the backline while supporting a possession oreinted attack AND attacking mindset. The question then would be are these bonus's more or less important than the offensive passes and possession a more attacking player would bring? Thats a hard question to answer and I think that reinforces the credibilyt of your thinking. If that is the desire... wouldn't it be interesting to see Bradley as 6 and Danny Williams and Jones as the two two way mids? I am not saying i would want that... but that would remove Edu's tendency to lose the ball and keep the defensive bite and ball winning ability in the center of the field. I would much rather see Bradley paired with an offensive minded mid to get better play in teh final third- but its interesting.
Whether you call it a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, we are missing two things: 1. 4 good attackers (we play with three) 2. dangerous players with the ball at their feet from wide areas Our spacing gets all bunched up inside. So, if you are without the ball, it's difficult to find angles to make runs that will be promising. Result is static and slow movement. Only Fabian Johnson seems to have clear sense of the when, where and if to make runs. Not coincidentally, he's the person who also is being given the most space by our opponents. Going back to two items listed above, let's compare the US with the Dutch. The Netherlands is currently playing with holding/defensive mids - van Bommel and de Jong - not too dissimilar from Bradley/Edu. However, in lieu of Wes Sneijder, we are playing Jones forward: one is the primary orchestrator for his side, the other is ... well ... not. In addition, if teams pack the center against the Netherlands, they swing it out to Robben or Affelay on the wings, and both are comfortable dribbling straight at opponents from that position. Dempsey and Landon are different players without these skills and/or instincts - Dempsey prefers to be central and Landon, while comfortable out wide, is not a one-on-one attacker as we all know. That's my diagnosis. What's the solution?? Beats me. I guess I would leave Jones out of the 11, drop Dempsey to the hole behind the striker (where he does his most damage for Fulham) and then go searching for the American Arjen Robben - say Justin Mapp but with grit .
I agree with most of that except to say Dempsey is playing the Sneijder role and we were missing the wing on the right. I also think Donovan was mostly MIA this game which means the only wing threat we had for most of the game was Johnson.
1 We don't play a true playmaker. 2 One of our 2 best attackers doesn't shoot enough. 3 One of our 2 best attackers doesn't pass enough. 4 We have no width. 5.When we do get some width it doesn't get behind the defense, we cross too early. 6 We get too cute. 7.We are not punishing fouls in the final third by converting our FKs.
WTF? You must mean replace Edu with Jones and drop Edu, right? The rest of it in comparing us with the Dutch is pretty good as far as that comparison goes, but highlights what I was getting at before; we have too many defensive minded mids and our best one is being used as an attacker which is really weird. In Dutch terms we are playing Nigel De Jong in the Sneijder position lol.
That's a key point which no matter how many times it's made, is ignored by the masses. Question: What's one of the most important elements of attack against a bunkering team on the road? Answer: Width on your attack, preferably from your wings, who stretch the attack and send in crosses, creating opportunities in the box and keeping the defense honest so the can't shade over towards a Clint or LD. We have young LW who created the majority of our scoring opportunities during JK's first seven games, against some pretty good competition, yet the number of people who even want to give up a bench spot to him I can count on my hand. Our attack is completely condensed as we have no width or crossing threat on the left, aside from an occasional run from Fabian, yet most NT fans for some reason see no need for a true LW who spreads the attack and sends in crosses. Maybe it's because we've rarely had one. Basically, we need Brek to get back to the form he showed last year, need MB farther up pitch, and need a more attack minded CM such as Freddy, Sacha or maybe Mix in an advanced position rather than playing both Edu/Jones in creative roles.
the width in this formation is brought by the LB and RB. fabian did well to make it so. also donovan needs to pull the ball inside sometimes too to make it even more effective. CD did an excellent job of it.
I agree. LD needs to either create the width himself or cut and create space or FJ. They did that okay on the left. The right was a mess. Dolo didn't get forward. I don't think dempsey was charged with creating that space, he played much more in the hole. It looked like that job feel to JJ. He and Dolo were horrible at creating those opportunities using width and that did hurt the US ability to break down the bunker and made their attack very onesided.
which makes me wish we had timothy chandler. my god if we can find a way to get him on the right....could be beautiful.
Chandler is gone. I would just get used to that. If he ever comes back... fine, but I wouldn't get any hopes up.
He really does if its not a counter and his crosses have been lacking a great deal. LD looked good against Scotland but really fading since.
I think this is the key here. One more mid who's adequate to good defensively (if necessary move Jones to the more defensive role), but is also useful in the passing game will make a HUGE difference. I had high hopes for Edu, but it's not just when he loses the ball or makes inaccurate passes. Something I've noticed a lot this year is Edu's often the player in the best position to receive a pass from one of the other CMs (usually Bradley). Sometimes he's very open and Bradley looks up to make a forward pass to him, but Edu is directing traffic, pointing for a pass back to the D or Howard. Other times he's in open space but doesn't move to improve the angle to receive the ball. In a few of these cases Bradley passed the ball into the open space giving Edu plenty of time to run onto the ball with adequate space to do something with it, but Edu looks surprised, takes a heavy touch and loses the ball or frantically tries to one time the ball ahead only to lose it. Maybe it's a temporary confidence thing with him, but at this stage of his career I would think he has it or he doesn't... I hope Stu recovers fully and becomes that mid, I think it would measurably improve our possession and attack.
One thing to consider is if we want Gomez or Jozy up top. Playing on-side/off-side at the 18 yd line I want Jozy. If it is crosses into the box I think Gomez might be better. Not sure but I'd like to see more to confirm. Guatemala was challenging us to cross the 18yd line. Johnson took up the challenge with a nifty disguised pass to Dempsey. Johnson was the man. Not sure Jones or Bradley could make that pass. They need to examine that tape verrrry closely. How about a team like this against Guatemala: --Dolo---Goodson--Boca--Lichaj-- ------------------Edu------------- ----------Bradley----Fabian--- -----Dono-----Jozy---Dempsey--
How about Fabian for Jones and don't worry so much about Edu's technical skills on offense since that position is not an offensive position