Post-match: USA vs. Antigua & Barbuda: the midfield

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Scotty, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. usa1950

    usa1950 Member

    Aug 18, 2000
    Indiana USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A PK, a second effort off a set piece and a goal mouth scramble tap in?

    CARVED EM UP!!!
     
  2. quinn

    quinn Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    Club:
    --other--
    It looks good in an open, up and down game - however against a team that is bunkering, not much these guys are going to do to break them down. However, not really sure who in this roster will. Certainly non of the midfielders will.
     
  3. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and we used to not get any of that just 8 years ago.
     
  4. usa1950

    usa1950 Member

    Aug 18, 2000
    Indiana USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The core group of players coming off a World Cup Quarterfinal appearance and an epic performance vs Germany would have done what exactly against an Antigua and Barbuda type squad?

    Struggled? Squeaked one in and bunkered for the second half? Perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but I find that laughable my friend.

    Say... THIRTY years ago we would have struggled and you might have something. My first USA Mach was in 1984... When we had to play in the rounds that A&B just got OUT of. 5,500 was a SELLOUT. You could HEAR the Netherlands Antilles supporters section talking about which McDonalds Olympic Medal winning tear off tabs they were going to go cash in after the game for a free dinners. Tailgating was a bookabl offense on the roads, not a pre-game activity. If you saw Ty Keough you tried to get his autograph.
     
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  5. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you dont struggle to win 3-1. and control all possession. nevermind some people are just going to hate away no matter what.
     
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  6. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not hate. It's frustration and dissappointment. It's watching a match we were dominating, but suddenly being up only 2-1 in the middle of the second half. It's the fading performance in the last 20 minutes. It is concern about the next game at a much tougher opponent, with tired players and a very short bench.

    Go back a mere 12 months and look at the anger on BS after the US's 1-0 win over minnow Guadeloupe at the Gold Cup. The US dominated that match much like we dominated Antigua. Should have won that game 4-0. But we struggled to turn domination into goals and the fans were frustrated.
     
  7. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sacramento
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree, if we won 4,5, etc to 1...People are going to complain. That being said, I felt we fell short on the total domination everyone expected. All that really matters now is we go down beat Guatemala. I think the next game will be a better analysis of the team.
     
  8. usa1950

    usa1950 Member

    Aug 18, 2000
    Indiana USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How pleased are you with the match overall? Use A B C D F if you'd like, or 1 through 10, whatever you'd like.

    Now for --- haters hate?

    Maybe it's just, "those who like to choose poor adjectives choose poor adjectives.". I've seen this team play matches live in three different decades in several different states including two "Dos A Ceros" --- and I "hate?" For the love of Jeff Agoos' horrific right foot, that's ridiculous and quite offensive to be honest. While that in itself includes zero entitlement or anything of the sort, might I suggest you learn to read others' opinion of this game and the team most of us love above all others without resulting to ridiculous and agressive generalizations?
     
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  9. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Edu looks to be the weakest of the 3, he needs extra touch on the ball, seldom passes forward and most of all, he dangerously blunders the pass from time to time. The ball movement is still too slow and telegraphed. I wished our mids also helped more at the flanks, more than once in the friendlies and in the first qualifier I noticed DOLO all by himself looking at two opponents coming down his lane, not sure if this by design or someone is not getting back.
     
  10. usa1950

    usa1950 Member

    Aug 18, 2000
    Indiana USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How I would LOVE to see a true 4-2-3-1 against a GOOD team, With the central player in the "3" stay the %#+/ forward!! A combo of Bradley, Jones, Edu tend to not have one of the three players attack as much as I would like to see.

    It's the choice of players I think...

    Personally, I think Bradley is the guy for the role, as Jones/Edu tend to be less proficient going forward.
     
  11. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We played a 4-2-3-1 v Belgium, France, and Italy. In none of those games were Bradley, Jones, or Edu part of the attacking 3.

    Jones has been the most aggressive and effective attacker of the 3, leading in assists and chances created
     
  12. usa1950

    usa1950 Member

    Aug 18, 2000
    Indiana USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe I wasn't as clear as I could have been

    ----------------striker
    -----Dempsey---CAM------Right Mid
    --------Bradley-------Jones


    My point is Bradley, Edu AND Jones on the pitch together creates obstacles and slows down the attack at times.
     
  13. usa1950

    usa1950 Member

    Aug 18, 2000
    Indiana USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Over what time frame against who?
     
  14. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    The "easiest" way to beat the bunker is to get the ball wide and deep and cross it or cutback against the grain for a shot.

    In some regard, this is a weakness of a spread out, single-striker, wingless formation that the US has been playing - crosses come from fullbacks from 40 yards away and not wingers and, when they do come, there's no size in the box.

    So, as popular as these midget-based formations might be, sometimes you just have to play an old style English game - get it wide, cross it early and shoot often.

    The US wasn't doing the above by design and that falls on the coaching staff.

    BTW, Bruce Arena coaches a poor man's English style game by just lumping the ball into the box from near midfield. Bob did that a lot in the WC'10 too. It can work if you have an Andy Carroll type.
     
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  15. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Edu, Jones, and Bradley together have scored the most goals in a match for JK with 5 and tied for the second most with 3!
     
  16. usa1950

    usa1950 Member

    Aug 18, 2000
    Indiana USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Are you saying the three Goals vs A&B with all three of them playing is one of the "3" games?
     
  17. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes

    Mexico 4-2-3-1----(D 1-1)----------Beckerman, Jones, Bradley
    CR --4-3-3---------(L 0-1)----------Edu, Torres, Donovan
    Belgium 4-2-3-1---(L0-1)-----------Edu, Dempsey, Torres
    Honduras 4-2-3-1--(W1-0)---------Beckerman, Edu, Dempsey
    Ecuador 4-1-3-2----(L 0-1)---------Beckerman, Edu, Dempsey
    France 4-2-3-1------(L 0-1)---------Beckerman, Edu, Dempsey
    Slovenia 4-3-1-2----(W 3-2)--------Beckerman, Bradley, Johnson
    Venezuela 4-2-3-1--(W 1-0)--------Larentowicz, Jones, Feilhaber
    Panama 4-4-2------(W 1-0)--------Clark, Jones
    Italy 4-2-3-1--------(W 1-0)--------Bradley, Edu, Dempsey
    Scotland 4-3-3------(W 5-1)--------Edu, Bradley, Jones
    Brazil 4-3-3---------(L 1-4)---------Bradley, Edu, Jones
    Canada 4-4-2-------(D 0-0)--------Bradley, Jones
    A&B 4-3-3----------(W 3-1)---------Edu, Bradley, Jones
     
  18. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Dominating possession is not just about when you have possession, but how quickly and easily you can win it back. the Edu, Bradley, Jones midfield is desingned to bully and win the midfield. If that is accomplished, you are likely to have more possession than the other team. It also makes it very hard to score on the ground, through the middle.

    Its not a bad way to go. I just wish Edu was a bit better so the midfield was a bit more two way. Bradly and Jones do fine as 2 way mids with a defensive/ball winning slant. Edu is a solid dmid defensively, but a poor one offensively.

    It does seem like that JK has settled on these three as the primary 3 man midfield and now he wants chemistry between them. I think Edu has the ability to do very well in that role, he's just being asked for more than he was required for his club team- so there is some development that needs to occur quickly. Or they need to find a replacement.

    We need holden back. I think if you add Holden to the other three mids, you have a good rotation and solid group overall. Add that to Edu's development and those four could be a very good group going into the WC.
     
  19. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Edu in JK's #6 role has no offensive responsibilities other than moving the ball. He did that very well v A&B making 69 passes missing only 5 passes with a total of only 6 turnovers. Edu had the 2nd best passing accuracy and the 2nd best turnover ratio on the entire team! Only Gomez was better.

    As a point of fact, Bradley had twice as many turnovers, Torres and Dempsey almost twice, Jones almost 3 times and Donovan 4 times as many turnovers as did Edu v A&B.

    Edu does much much more offensively for 'Gers. He is the more offensive of the 2 CMs for his club team.

    Klinsmann's view of a DM:

    That's not all Klinsmann said about the No. 6 position. "If you have the No. 6 on your back, if it's Kyle or if it's Jermaine or if it's Ricardo Clark or whoever it could be, you need to understand that your first job, 98 percent, is to clean up," the coach said. "To play simple, don't lose the ball, to help your two center backs, build a triangle with the two center backs, and you're always out there for your team. You are not there to go forward in the box to score goals. If I see you in the box, it's nice if you give me a goal, but more likely it won't be the case, and I have a problem defensively."
     
  20. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    1) An article earlier, I can't remembr if it was no corners, shin guardian or MLS- pointed out that Edu has much more time for the Rangers to make decisions than he does at the international level. He needs to go to a club at a higher level.

    2) The Dmid's primary role is defensie and clean up, but it also starts the counter and works to hold possession. Edu does well with teh defensive duties, not so well with the offensive. Every position in soccer is two-way. JK only talked about the defensive responsibilities of his 6, not the offensive.
     
  21. usa1950

    usa1950 Member

    Aug 18, 2000
    Indiana USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I find it just shy of insanity to praise Edu/Bradley/Jones for midfield attacking prowess during the A&B match. Just because we scored on a second chance from a set piece, a PK (albeit from a good pass) and a goal mouth scramble tap-in while these three were on the field does not mean they played well, created, or provide any data whatsoever that 3 CDM's is our best choice, much less effective.
     
  22. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    They helped to dominate possession by helping to win the ball back quickly and move the ball quickly. How well they were able to help break down the bunker is another question. But I think their ability to stop up the middle, win the ball back quickly, and circulate it quickly and compentantly are all being overlooked and are imporatnt parts of the US's ability to dominate teams. They won the midfield battle- as they should have.
     
  23. usa1950

    usa1950 Member

    Aug 18, 2000
    Indiana USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I specified midfield ATTACKING PROWESS.

    Do you have a comment on that topic? Your post above is only vaguely related, if that. Winning the ball and moving it around the edges of a 9 man bunker??? Doesnt take much, and doesn't take three experienced professions to do so vs A&B is the point.

    They should have done better. They didn't.
     
  24. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Possession is part of the attack. Ball winning quickly and correctly is part of possesion. Its all connected. They helped dominate the midfield and possession, which helped the US attack. This isn't American Football where you its completely different units.

    Further quickly and competently circulating the ball to maintain possession is a skill that includes technical skills, composure on the ball, good spacing, and off the ball movement. Its a skill the US has formely lacked. So I don't think the fact that those three did those pieces well should be overlooked, as they are part of the current US on the ground attacking style of play.
     
  25. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where did anyone praise that trio for "attacking prowess"? It is insanity to make things up.

    You were the one who proposed that a 4-2-3-1 without a Edu, Bradley, and Jones trio would generate more offense. The facts of JK's 14 matches showed that it has not. It is not my fault that the facts do not agree with your pre conceived notions. :)
     
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