http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Busch The Jon Busch wikipedia page has been updated. Cause that's how we do in Queens, New York.
It's frustrating to see obvious time-wasting, such as blatatantly feigning injury, purposefully kicking or throwing a ball away, standing on top of an opposing free kick knowing full well they need 10 yards, but the referee has the means to speed up the play by acting quickly to nip it in the bud via warnings or even punishing players with a card, as he did with Nielsen. Much of it is subjective though. How much time should a goalie get to retrieve a given ball, set a goal kick, back up, wait for his defense to push up field, etc.? How injured do you have to be to stay down and require a moment to gather oneself, or even get treated by the medical staff on the field? Referees aren't doctors, so it's just a matter of tacking on time at his discretion. Substitutions late in the game, if you have them, are completely within a team's rights, but most times unnecessary, for any other reason than to waste time. How are you going to blame or accuse a 10 year old ball boy for a loss due a second or two of time-wasting? Most of these kids are star struck and just watching the game, spacing out, checking out a fan screaming, like anyone else. Some of them get yelled by players for throwing a ball to them, when they already are motioning for the other ball over there on the sideline from the other ball boy. They're unpaid, and of course do not undergo a professional USSF clinic on the the proper procedure and etiquette for ball boy conduct in order to avoid formal compaints lodged against your home team. Catch the kids a break, or send a professional MLS ball boy team, or a "Referee Intern Team" that acts objectively and works for the league. Soccer is a free flowing sport, so implementing specific time-based situational rules is very difficult. Certain rules have been implemented, such as no more back pass to the keeper's hands, and simulation/feigning a foul or injury and kicking the ball away now receive mandatory yellow cards. But punishing a team by adding "extra punishment-type time" is too subjective and situationally impractical to mandate for a guy wiping his hands off a few times before a throw in, or tying his shoe before a free kick, because they may be necessary on some level, albeit preceived as time-wasting by the emotionally unstable typical player or opposing fan flipping out for every call that they don't agree with. Win the damn game outright, make a save, defend the crosses better, if San Jose is that confident in their team deserving to win. Don't blame it on a child ball boy taking 3 extra seconds out of 90 plus minutes, 110 yards away from the goal you need to score in! That's and absurd irrational reaction I am sure Busch and the San Jose management will regret, as adult, professionals, when they look back at it.
On the 810 post game radio show, a kid claiming to be the ball kid in question ("Logan") called in and admitted that he was time-wasting and slow-playing Busch for "home team advantage". He said Busch slapped him on the arm and the ball kid didn't seem to think it was that big of deal. The 810 guys seemed to think the kid was legit. Depending on a) whether there was video and b) whether that video goes viral, I could see Busch getting less than the guy who slurred the ball boy earlier in the year. I also think they'll probably ban the kid from being a ball kid again (assuming the call was legit). Apparently Greg Cotton sprinted across the field post-game and along with a couple of cops, escorted the kid off the field. I don't mind the time-wasting by players on the field--standing over the free kick, keepers taking their time. The refs have ways of dealing with that, through discipline or added time. I have more of a problem with homer ball kids getting involved in the game. On the Zeus takedown, did anyone figure out what the real call was? I decided it must have been ruled an inadvertent whistle and a drop ball to SJ's advantage based on the following: the CR said no foul, the AR waved his flag to call something, the ball ended up in SJ's position when the CR noticed the AR and blew the whistle, but after consultation, they decided that there shouldn't have been a call. I saw the AR make a kind of "50/50" hand motion during the discussion, so I suppose it could have been some kind of double-foul. Either that or the CR called a dive and the AR called the foul and since they couldn't reconcile, they decided to make it a no call. Does anyone have an explanation?
It looked to me that Cotton did so to get some statements from the kid. I think you're right, or the ref just decided to change his mind. When Zusi reacted to the decision, I thought that maybe he was getting booked for diving, which would have been wrong, but at least that would be how you actually handle the situation. If the ref was willing to just say, "Forget that I blew the whistle," it seems that the next logical step would have been to call a do-over.
Was the SJ staff involved in that? Looked like actual police, not just stadium security. Ill assume the reason was not because of a 14 year old ball kid. Earlier, at 85:36, Busch flung a ball into the stands, five/six rows deep, after receiving a ball from a ball kid. Seems like someone got under Busch's skin. Busch reads at a 7th grade level, with maturity to match. His mother must be proud. FIVE minutes of stoppage in the second half, Puma carded for wasting time. Its not like SJ were starved of added time. If SKC ever complain about losing because of a f****** ball kid, I'll turn in my shirt. What happened on the Opara shrug on Zusi? Zusi beat him, Opara played the man, not the ball, yet SJ was effectively awarded possession off a drop??? The NBC crew can stuff itself. The commentary on that particular challenge was telling. Later the ball deflects off Opara in the box (again, while SKC were up a goal and taking the initiative), yet the yellow team steals a corner from Zusi/SKC. Listening to NBC, it sounded like SKC were hanging on for dear life.... If there was true threat of another goal, it wasn't San Jose's. SKC were the team with the bizarre injury on its back line. Not SJ. Ha, Harrington for Sinovic was a masterstroke by Vermes. Puma wasnt exactly holding his breath at the end of the match, as SJ weren't exactly tightening the screws. Worst case, it couldve been a draw; however, Im a little disappointed we didnt make it 3.
From what I can tell of the situation, Zusi went down and Toledo didn't see a foul on the play and made the motion to play on. At the same time, the AR raised his flag for a foul. Toledo blew for a foul and then went to discuss with his AR to make sure he got the call right. After a discussion Toledo overruled his AR and called no foul. Since play had been stopped he restarted play with a drop ball. No it was just Cotton, the police, security, and I saw Wyche make his way over as well. I don't know what game you were watching late, but San Jose had plenty of sustained possession in our half late on. We were getting outplayed by the end and were relying on clearing the ball over the top for Bunbury to try to hold up against Opara (side comment, Bunbury had a very good game yesterday, even without a goal he played extremely well and did great holding the ball up). "Worst case, it could've been a draw?" That would have been a disastrous result considering the way that we played for the first 60 minutes, worse so than the game last week against Colorado. We should have made it 3, we had plenty of opportunities to, Kamara put chances wide and Zusi had a chance that Busch made a good save on. For once I'd like a game to finish up with us actually playing well and actually feel comfortable in the result that we're going to win...
I felt the play on Zusi was clean. The SJ defender gets there first and gets his shoulder inside of Zusi's shoulder and gets the ball first. I don't believe he extended his a elbow, showing space between his arm and body. And they were outside of the box. There's this weird misconception amongst a lot of fans (and even refs sadly) that if a player falls down in that situation, it's a automatic foul. They bumped and Zusi went down. Zusi got beat. HOWEVER, if you blow the whistle and stop the play, you have to call the foul right? Regardless of whether it's right or wrong. In the end, I think he actually made the right call, but they stopped the play in our attacking end and then just gave the ball to SJ. Which seems like some shady-ass bullshit. The ref had a very sketchy final 30 minutes.
This was essentially what confused me. If no foul was called, despite the linesman flagging the play, shouldn't Zusi have been given a "foul" for embelishment, if not a yellow card? I guess the way it played out was that the ref awarded a drop ball because of a stoppage and Zusi kicked it out of play due to "sportmanship", and if he wanted to could have contested it and tried to get posession back. Was just a weird sequence all around.
Agree to disagree. SJ played with three in the back, and picked up the ball more. More possession late, when chasing the game is a loser' mantra. From SJ's goal (71st) to the finish, the best chances were SKC (Zusi Twice in the 84th minute; Sapong in the 85th which he totally blew; Kamara in the 88th; Bunbury in the 92nd). There was one instance of emergency defending (Chance's header over the crossbar in the 78th) which garnered SJ its only corner of the match. Sure Collin stuck a few attackers late, but this wasnt exactly Puma standing on his head keeping SJ out of the net. As we both said, it very well could have been 3 for us. Regardless, 2-1 works. Yes we played more route 1 toward the end, and yes, Id like to close out a game with a nice samba that lasts 20 minutes; however, references to KC 'hanging on' are a bit much. I can think of far more nervy finishes when holding a lead. I dont want to sound like I dont respect SJ's work saturday or their initiative in the second half. 3 games in 8 days, playing this without arguably their two best players. They were tough to beat and it took two of the prettier goals of the season for us to do it.
Poor Seth. Hope he has a close personal friend to attend to certain needs....and I will resist using the appropriate smiley... A completely unrelated question: Got my STH scarves yesterday. Weren't they going to redo them to add the date? Or are the pins a substitute for that?
SJ fan here. (obviously). SKC definitely played a better game and deserved the win. What hurt us as much as not having Wondo and Lenhart was the absence of our best centerback, Victor Bernadez, who has been out injured for more than a month now. (He went down on the same play where Marquez broke She Salinas' collar bone). We have not recorded a shut out since Bernadez has been out and his size and strength were sorely needed against your front line of Sapong, Bunbury, and Kamara, which was just too big, fast and powerful for our back line. A healthy Bernadez would have allowed us to shift Morrow over to left back in place of the the traffic cone known as Ramiro Corrales. It would have been nice to face you guys with a full squad, but, all teams have to deal with injuries and absences at some point. Stadium looked great, good luck the rest of the year.
The 4-1-4-1 formation in the first half really controlled the SJ midfield For long stretches they couldn't cross midfield with possession. This created a lot of 2v1 turnovers for SKC which triggered the attack. I don't know about the long term prospect of CJ at left wing, but IMO convey does not get on the end of that cross by Kei. Overall a much better performance that resembled the team of the first 7 weeks
Earthshaker, glad you enjoyed the stadium and glad you could join us in what is in my opinion one of the finest locales for the beautiful game. I hope you had a chance to stop by the tailgating beforehand in Lot F. Sure would have been nice to meet you. We have been waiting several weeks for this moment when the front line of Sapong, Bunbury, and Kamara entered the field of play together at the start of the game. Wondo, Lenhart and Bernadez may have made a bigger contribution to the SJ squad yesterday. But, as you said, all teams have to deal with injuries and call-ups. Churchill913 makes a good point, from my vantage point in the Cauldron, SKC put together lots of 2v1's and stole the ball forward. Great D! The last 1/3 rd of the game had a SJ comeback feel to it. But, SKC cleared a lot of those opportunities and had several run of plays that if executed properly could have added to the lead.
People keep complaining about the ballkids but I didn't see anything in it, really. Were they super slow? Yes, they were but they didn't really move for either team all game long. Friend and I were discussing it in the first half and figured they were just hot. I mean, they ARE kids and not many enjoy the heat. But that's just my thoughts. Carry on...
Watching this team early in the game is remarkable with their high energy pressing game, but I wonder if it makes them unable to finish games convincingly. Maybe Vermes should use a little more of a squad rotation, especially with the depth at forward, which might allow the team to play with higher energy in the last 75 minutes.
It could just be a mental thing....as in we play better in closer games? I'd say it would be fatigue, but KC's intensity certainly turned up a notch after the Zusi fiasco.
The only way to remedy that is to start doing the timekeeping like hockey. Every time there is a stoppage in play, stop the clock. If the ball goes out of bounds, stop the clock. If someone gets injured, stop the clock. If there's a PK, stop the clock. Et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseam. As much as I love hockey, I doubt that would work in soccer. Too many set pieces to worry about to keep stopping and restarting the clock every time there's a goal kick, corner kick, throw-in, direct kick, indirect kick, kickoff, or whatever. If they did that, the timekeeper would have a freaking aneurysm trying to keep up.
And MLS did this back when the league started, the referee made an X about his head with his hands to stop the clock. Soccer purists hated it, along with the count down clock and a multitude of other things.
I noticed the same thing. If Toledo didn't get the guys fired-up with that no-call that he called, I don't think we would have closed out the last ~10 minutes of the game as well as we did.
Posting here what posted in the San Jose forum (replying to Smoking Pun): "Enjoyed meeting you and all the other great SKC supporters. Thanks for the incredible hospitality. As mentioned, when you and your posse make the trek your game tickets (and tailgate brews) will be gratis. "For my fellow Quakes fans, KC is a truly great roadtrip destination. The tailgating has gotta be the best in MLS, and the stadium is well-designed to provide a great soccer-watching experience (if not nearly so spectacular as advertised). Also, the city itself is an underrated jewel, with lots of beautiful architecture and great museums, and of course amazing BBQ. But the best part of the trip was the local fans, who were welcoming as well as enthusiastic."
The ref didn't call a foul, but the assistant ref did when he raised his flag. The ref properly whistled the play and spoke with the assistant ref. I assume that the ref over-ruled the assistants call (he had a much better angle on the play than the assistant ref) and the proper restart on a stoppage of play is a drop ball, with when the ball is on the field and there is no foul. It's typical that a ref will "give" the ball to one of the teams to ensure there is no advantage, technically he should have had both teams line up on the drop ball (like a face-off in hockey). In summary, the ref team did a good job on that play, assuming there wasn't a foul.