I'm using "studs-up" as ONE of the dangerous methods. If you look more closely, I've also mentioned lunging recklessly, coming over the ball, or coming in from behind. Goalposts intact. By the way... The title of that video reeks of bias. Saying Alonso was "Dirty" and was "trying" to break the ankle are big leaps, in my opinion. That looked more clumsy and mistimed than malicious. Definitely should have been yellow; probably COULD have been red. But not DIRTY, my opinion. I can see why a Quakes fan would be upset, but I can also see why a five-man panel might not be unanimous for a suspension, either.
Except as I have explained that was an argument that you inferred not one that I made. You could argue it was silly example or in bad taste if you like but that is down to your sensibilities. The reason I used that particular example was to exaggerate the principle at play in a pythonesque (absurd) manner - obviously it wasn't understood that way.
you've mentioned other things, but you harped at length on studs-up to 'color' the argument. but was joseph's play 'DIRTY?' was it beyond 'probably COULD have been red,' which in alonso's case doesn't hit your threshold? don't mean to go on forever on any single play, but just pointing out the confusion inherent (and therefore the lesser likelihood of accomplishing something of use). personally i find alonso's play more malicious and intentional than joseph's (the title of the clip however wasn't mine). imo alonso is aiming, joseph wasn't; alonso's was no accident, joseph's was. in this particular case your 'clumsy and mistimed' is my 'malicious.' i don't expect the dc to perform any better than any other piece of the mls puzzle.
But if they perform better than the individual referee reffing a given game, that's the only threshold you need to surpass. I believe it will probably pass that threshold once the DC gets comfortable with its new mandate. Its possible that it will not, but that's a risk worth taking. Its also possible that play will change and make the DC less active. That would also be a good thing. I agree that both the Joseph suspension and the Alonso non suspension could have gone the other way. That doesn't mean its time to scrap the system. Just like an in game referee, the DC will make mistakes. The hope is that five people make fewer mistakes than essentially one (plus his three assistants that usually bad angles and are far from most of these tackles).
I haven't seen the Joseph tackle. I haven't mentioned the Joseph tackle. You're the one making it about that play -- not me. I'm talking about the one I've seen. And I'm also not suggesting that because we have a disciplinary committee now that they're also automatically going to get it right, every single time with no mistakes. The only thing I've even tried to get at with this conversation is the idea that player behavior won't be afected by this, and I think it will. I haven't referenced any of the individual decisions they've made, as I don't like talking out of my ass on things I don't have direct knowledge of.
I repeat. If only soccer players practised tackling! My god why has nobody thought of this! By the way if you truly believe that is the answer then what the f**K has MLS DC's review system got to do with it?
As has been pointed out many times the only behaviour/decision making this can possibly affect is a players split second calculation as to make a tackle or not and I am arguing that is a negative not a positive for a competitive sport. It is no use droning on about the different types of malicious tackle as you have without recognising that sort of thing is already outlawed. If you were arguing for more severe suspensions and fines for truly violent tackles you would have my sympathy. Indeed if they used a review system only for clear deliberate offences such as two footed lunges or studs up challenges you describe then I might even be supportive of it. However (How many times have I had to define the argument against this now?) that is not what MLS DC review system is set up to do. They are talking about coming down on all tackles they consider were not punished appropriately during the game. I have already explained and predicted the negative fallout for that. If it ended there I would just be against it but the part what really flips my lid is they expect this policy will make for a better product on the field. That is absurd not only for its presumption that less tackles (a less competitive environment - because that is what you will get) make for a better game but that pissing off the people responsible for that product is the way to go about it. Why not in the off season go around all the franchises and gather all the coaches and players and explain exactly how they would be operating and that they apologised in advance for any fallout but they were adopting a zero tolerance policy? At least the players may have felt a part of the mission rather than a bunch of naughty boys who needed to be taught a lesson by their employers. The whole thing is a bad joke. When you have players making a point of publicly criticising their disciplinary committee you know there is a problem. So what to do? Do they just pretend they haven't read Joseph's comments implying guilt? Do they exacerbate the situation by disciplining him for bringing the game into disrepute? Truth is there is no right answer and there lies just one of the very predictable issues with utilising such a system in such a high handed manner. I haven't yet decided if it this idea is purely the product of misplaced good intention, the result of non soccer people making soccer decisions or just good old fashioned blind arrogance.
So will MLS fine the Union and Crew players for abusive language if the NBC Sports mics pick it up again?
If Rafa Marquez doesn't pick up a 5 game suspension for his thuggery today we'll know the league is skewed towards the larger teams and their precious DPs.
Both Marquez and whoeever used the elbow to the face on Cooper should be suspended but Marquez should be gone longer.
How about he just gets thrown out of the league for good. He drags the entire team down at the cost of a DP spot. And he's a punk ass thug to boot
There were a couple of ugly dives today, one of which took a goal off the board. Those should be dealt with as well.
Just watched a replay of Marquez's kick to Salinas. Assuming that its intentional (which, given, there may be a question about) I don't see how you could give Marquez significantly less that what Clark got for his kick of Ruiz or Mullan got for his tackle of Zakuani. That's either going to be no suspension or 8+ games. I don't know how the DC would be able to explain only giving him 1-2 games.
I dont know if you can prove conclusively based on the replay that he intentionally kicked him. Knowing Marquez he probably did but I think he could make a case that his momentum carried his leg. I agree I could see either nothing or if they think it was intentional like 3 games.
F-bombs are the norm on NBC broadcasts, a few dives, Marquez trying to mate with, then potentially kicking Shea Salinas...can't wait to see what happens.
I don't know - if momentum had carried his leg, it wouldn't have come down with as much force as it did. The momentum he had was more horizontal, not vertical. His kicking leg shouldn't have come down the way he did if he didn't do it himself. Watching that video and knowing Marquez's history, I definitely think it's intentional.
That didn't stop the DC last year: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/05/12/mondaini-suspended-four-games-fined-morales-tackle
Definitely intentional. Salazar is walking around with $1000 worth of electronics. Didn't he even bother to ask his assistants if they saw anything? Terrible refereeing. Salazar needs to be fired. Let him try out his blind man act in the business world.
The kick looked intentional to me, but don't kid yourselves, Marquez didn't break that collar bone with a kick, he broke it when he body slammed Salinas.
Having nothing to do with a disciplinary action, is why Marquez was stupid enough to basically tackle Salinas in the box when a) the ball wasn't coming anywhere near him and b) Salinas is hardly known for his aerial ability. I mean, what the heck was/is Marquez doing on that play? He's a complete joke.
Marquez - ever the villain/clown. It kills me, though that RBNY didn't get punished with a penalty + red card for his antics.
Rafa Marquez's kick was aimed at Salinas' should he is looking right at him when he delivers the kick. This is in the 10 to 15 games suspension category.