What's he gonna learn? I'll tell you what I would learn: yell anything at them other than fa**ot and racial slurs and you're in the clear. Or yell at them in Spanish or another foreign language that the refs maybe can't understand clearly. But according to Ortiz, the founder of Outsports.com is OK with MLS for the punishment. Whew, I was worried we'd lose .00001 of a ratings point. People who want to stand up for what they believe, not hide behind the absurd shield of politcal correctness. I expect the Dynamo FO to eject ANYONE who use any sort of foul language at the new stadium or anything that I find objectionable - since apparently offending anyone is rise for massive punishment. I hope no one on this board ever chants "********" at a goal kick. If so, you are no better than Colin Clark or Sounders Supporters. I would be ashamed of those Dynamo fans who would use such a "slur" at an opposing keeper. Based on the reaction of everyone else here, I'm sure NO ONE here has ever said that. In fact, I think I will organize a group to protest the opening of BBVA, and call it "Putonium"
I think this thread has run its course. We have people going too far on both sides screaming about wanting long suspensions and people who complain about liberul PC Art, please just close it, its not cool for a fanbase on here to be so divided. Clark's apologized, been dealt his punishment. Let's just move on people.
If you think this is bad, man, what would have happened if Mike Chabala was still on the roster? NoPlaceForHat8 vs. the Rapids Humanitarian of the Year !!!! We'd have actual locker room dustups possibly!!
Since you asked...This America is vastly better than the one I grew up in. As a child my father sat at the dinner table telling a variety of racist jokes to his four kids. Blacks, Jews, Poles, Italians, Puerto Ricans...he was an equal opportunity hater. Even as a kid I remember thinking it was both wrong and stupid. Although I cannot speak for the GLBT community I don't believe they want to be more equal, just equal. If you deny that there are actually mistreated populations in the U.S. then you're already too far gone for me to convince of anything. As for you possibly being called a cracker. If the term was used in a situation that affected your job or life, such as a boss or a racist neighbor continually harassing you. Then yes you certainly could make an issue of it, and potentially get a boss or colleague suspended, or take civil action against the neighbor. If it was a professional athlete,sort of spitting the term at you on camera then yes there would be an issue You know that to be true, but it kills your arguments to admit that white guys are not actually helpless. Finally, your proposition that diversity is driving the U.S into the third world is absurd. I would argue that people like you who don't play well with others, believe their opinions to be the only true and correct ones, and do whatever they can to shout other peope down are a bigger threat to America than any protests by the GLBT community. Third World countries are usually run by dictators who sound remarkably like you. As I said...Don't like it here? Go live somewhere else. Without using those exact words that's what you're saying to others.
The whole thing annoys me too. But issues like this have a way of losing steam and going away naturally.
After many days my first post, and hopefully my only, with my thoughts on this topic. #1) Generally speaking, I think a 3 game suspension for saying anything (no matter how distasteful many find what one says) is extremely harsh. Suspensions longer than the equivalent of a red card should be, IMO, reserved for actions rather than words. #2) I would presume that Colin choosing to use the word he did in the context he did had nothing to do with making a statement about homosexuals or homosexuality... my guess is he used that word (as someone else suggested) as a surrogate for "idiot" or "jerk" or "asshole" directed at someone who just pissed him off. #3) Had Colin used either "idiot" or "jerk" or "asshole" in his verbal lashing of the ball boy I doubt he's suspended by the league... my guess is it was his choice of words (mainly in regard to the cultural and political connotations associated with those words) rather than how he used the words or his actions in conjunction with his words that earned him the suspension. #4) Regardless of what words he used (or how distasteful they were), however, I actually don't have a problem with the league suspending a player or coach for the action of harassing a ball boy (or any other league "officials" such as referees, linesmen or timekeepers) IF the league is suspending the player or coach for the ACTION of harassing a match official rather than for the content of his speech while harassing a match official... especially if the content of that speech is of a nature that many would define as "political." #5) All of that being said, here is what I do have a problem with: I don't want my teams or the leagues my teams play in engaging in anything remotely political (and anyone who believes that there isn't a significant political angle to this suspension is deluding himself), even when I happen to agree with whatever position my team or league is seeming to endorse (such as in this case - as I would never countenance that word being used in my house just as I would not tolerate a racial or ethnic slur either), as the next time my team (or league) takes a political position it might be one I disagree with. Though I know this ship - so to speak - has long since "sailed," it is a precedent I'd rather not set... a slippery slope I'd rather not go sliding down with my sports teams, and on a purely emotional level I don't want politics (which divides people) to interfere with my passion for my teams or my camaraderie with my fellow fans (whom I might disagree with politically). For these same reasons, therefore, I also cringe a little bit whenever my teams do other things that others might not at first glance regard as political (such as FIFA's "Say No to Racism" campaign, "honor the troops" events, or recycling campaigns and other "green" initiatives). To put it another way, with both the Clark suspension and the other examples I gave our leagues/associations/teams are essentially endorsing the following political positions: - it is unacceptable to publicly ridicule homosexuals or homosexuality - racism is bad and should be stamped out - the troops do important work and deserve our honor and support - recycling and other "green" initiatives are good ... and in the process of taking these positions they contribute to the further shrinking of what is the "acceptable" range of political opinion in our society... and I don't want my soccer team - regardless of the fact that I personally agree with 3 of the 4 positions listed above - contributing in any way to the further shrinking of the "acceptable" range of political opinion (we get enough of that already from the mainstream political parties, the media, the public schools, Hollywood, academia, etc.). EDIT: Given that liberty is what I believe in, I should note that while I would prefer my teams not engage in the political... as they are composed of private institutions, associations, corporations and/or wealthy individuals I fully endorse the right of these teams/leagues/whatever to say whatever they want about anything political or support any initiative they fancy... and would never think to employ coercion to force them to not.
I know you are being factitious, but I agree with this. I am not the only one either, not close. Just because someone has said it in the past does not make it right. I am probably going to regret this, but what do you "believe"?
BTW, I bet the 1-game self suspension that I hoped for would have been accepted by MLS and nothing further would have happened. Additionally, since people apparently view me as some giant agendaed liberal who is "swooping in to defend homosexuals", I would like to state that given the situation a 3 game suspension is ridiculous and I could see a forced 1 game suspension as debatable too given how he handled everything. But from the posts in this thread it seems that many of you not only disagree with the suspension say he did nothing wrong, but are indicating that what he did was good and needed to be done and you applauding him for it. That is disgusting.
My opinion: I don't believe that Clark was being homophobic. But even if Clark doesn't hate gays and lesbians, he shouldn't have used language that promotes hate. This problem really happened because Clark was stupid, and has not been properly educated on how the modern world behaves. He's been punished, I trust he and other soccer players will learn from this. Let's move on. Nothing good will come out of this thread. This will simply divide the fans, and at worst, could promote somebody to be punched at the new stadium. At the Dynamo games, the only thing we all have in common is that we all love the team in orange. At the stadium, we are sitting next to people we don't know, and they all could be: Democrats, or Republicans Gay, or straight Nice people, or a$$****s Dog people, cat people People who want tougher stand on immigration, or immigrants like me who are grateful for the opportunity to come to Texas (even though we don't know who Steve Earle is) Sometimes it's better not to know what the person next to us is thinking!!! We all have different beliefs (probably due to our upbringing and environment), we all see the world in a different way. We are not better than Clark when we yell at somebody else because he/she has different opinions. Posts like METROFAN89's https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25421317&postcount=103 saddened me. If we want to make a difference, we don't insult people who don't share our point of view, we earn their respect, we earn their trust, then we educate them. Attacks directed at fans who don't share our opinion further continue to prolongue the culture of intolerance that we want to move away from. May I suggest? Let's tolerate somebody else's opinion? Let's help people see that there are different opinions without insulting them? Could we go back to talking soccer here? Reading these posts made me feel like being back in college reading Arthur Schnitzler's "Die Herren mit der grünen Krawatte". It had something to do with diversity and criticism, but the confusing short story was soooo going nowhere, that I stop translating it and turned on the TV to watch Italy being kicked out of the 1986 world cup. I still don't get that story, and I don't get this thread.
i'm more aggrieved that he verbally abused a minor more than what was actually said. kobe said it, noah said it, duane brown tweeted it, and their organizations decided that a 3 game suspension was a punishment that didn't fit the crime. i have to agree. but given today's society where we live in fear of what some activist group might do, i'm not surprised MLS over reacted. they just wouldn't be able to handle lady gaga protesting the the BBVA offices in Spain demanding that Clark be banned to the J-League. i'm disgusted by clarks comments but stand firmly behind him and his sincere apology. i miss the days when making a mistake was seen as being human and society didn't demand a pound of flesh for one time, verbal mistakes. sticks and stones may break my bones but words will "never hurt" ,errrrrrrr, i mean, "make you loose your job for 3 games"
Can someone link me to the actual statement released by MLS in its entirety? I'm surprised that I cannot find it anywhere. All I see is this: and the Dynamo's repsonse:
I don't think anyone should do anything that might result in Mexican teams not ending games against MLS teams with a bench-clearing brawl. It's become one of my favorite things about cross-border games. Also...
I created a form letter for everybody that will eventually get offended. This is addressed at Nigel and every other "gringo" that has been offended by that word. (Yes I swiped my own comment from another thread) Dear (Name of Person that Insulted You): Re: (Offensive Word) On (date), I was called a (insult) at (location, date and other important details of the incident). Unfortunately, your insult has offended me because (state reason i.e. politically incorrect and/or are part of said group). I am disappointed because (explain the problem). To resolve the problem, I would appreciate that you (state the specific action you want - money, publicity, or other). Enclosed is proof of said insult from my records (send video or other supporting information). I look forward to your reply and a resolution to my problem and will wait until (set a time limit) before making this into more of a public spectacle. Please contact me at (insert address of organization you're representing or where you want your check to be mailed). Sincerely, (Name of organization or name to which check should be made out to)
You have good taste. I thought I was the only one that was disappointed when they just walk off the field. I hope the bench clearing brawl catches on in MLS. At least for the playoffs people!!!!
I couldn't agree more. We seem to have lost the offensive part of the incident in the effort to pander to the offended group. Grown ups should not talk to children like that. Grown ups should not talk to volunteers like that. MLS should hold grown ups that do accountable for their actions. Right mid had been a weak spot for this team since Mullan left. If Dixon (or another player waiting for an opportunity) plays 3 games and takes the position from Clark through performance we will be better off. Clark faces a loss far greater than 3 games. The Gay community in Bertram Texas is pretty small so I don't get exposed to the norms within the group. Is the "F word" used in a manner that is similar to how the "N word" is used in the African-American (also small in Bertram) community? That is, it is ok to call each other that word but extremely offensive if someone outside of the group to use it?
A friend posted this to FB. I like it. "Being a good person does not depend on your religion, status in life, race, skin color, or political views or culture. It depends on how you treat others."
As I have said before, what Clark did was wrong and he has manned-up to his mistake unlike other players. So with this in mind I wanted to bring up a more serious incident where Donovan kicks the ball into the crowd in Houston with malice a few years ago. This incident involved a player assaulting our fans, randomly and unprovoked, so it had worse intent and I recall he actually hurt an elderly person. Does anyone know where we could get this video and/other injured fan statement/medical report? It is ridiculous that the league will selectively punish this player’s incident but not others that hurt random fans in the crowd without being provoked but then this is addressed in 1 week. And to make sure that people know I am serious about this, Donovan assualting of our fans and racist abuse of our traveling fans, and if you know me please note that I will dedicate as much energy as I did for the fan push/drive for the Dynamo Stadium!
this movie has one of the best lines ever: "I know who I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!" of course, delivered by a white actor in black face. you see there's a difference between the truly satirical and westside. dang dude, how do you function in this century.